Any tonal differences if you flip the pickup?

Clint 55 said:
I'm cognizant of which way I orient my hums. It's more snappy if you turn the neck hum around and rounder if you turn the bridge hum around.
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You're right. Turning it around makes the neck humbucker sound a TINY BIT clearer and less bassy.

Some people hear it. Some don't.
 
Lewguitar said:
When the most influential guitarist of the last 40 years prefers the sound of doing something like that, a wise person would think there might be something to it.
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Two main things here:
1) Again, never underestimate the placebo effect. Just as people can often be tricked into believing a modelling amp is a 'real' amp just by giving them a blind test and telling them it's the real deal, people come to believe all sorts of things about their guitars, often traits which can not actually be attributed to anything as specific as a single part or isolated alteration. Someone flips their pickup around and decides it sounds better—ignoring that they also changed strings, fixed intonation, changed the pickup height, changed the pots, changed the bridge, changed their amp, or any number of other adjustments—and suddenly they're swearing blind that flipping your pickups around is the only way to get a good sound.
2) Just because someone is popular does not mean they know more or are right. Of course it doesn't mean they are inherently wrong, either. You must take each hypothesis and theory on its own merits and not ascribe any plausibility based on notoriety. After all, Taylor Swift plays guitar and has sold many times more records than Eddie ever did, doubtlessly inspiring just as many if not more kids to pick up an instrument, yet you wouldn't take gear advice from her.

And a soft third thing: of the last 40 years, I—and I'm sure many others—would argue that Kurt Cobain has been much more influential than Eddie Van Halen. That's really another topic for another day, but while we're here, there it is.
 
Ace Flibble said:
Two main things here:
1) Again, never underestimate the placebo effect. Just as people can often be tricked into believing a modelling amp is a 'real' amp just by giving them a blind test and telling them it's the real deal, people come to believe all sorts of things about their guitars, often traits which can not actually be attributed to anything as specific as a single part or isolated alteration. Someone flips their pickup around and decides it sounds better—ignoring that they also changed strings, fixed intonation, changed the pickup height, changed the pots, changed the bridge, changed their amp, or any number of other adjustments—and suddenly they're swearing blind that flipping your pickups around is the only way to get a good sound.
2) Just because someone is popular does not mean they know more or are right. Of course it doesn't mean they are inherently wrong, either. You must take each hypothesis and theory on its own merits and not ascribe any plausibility based on notoriety. After all, Taylor Swift plays guitar and has sold many times more records than Eddie ever did, doubtlessly inspiring just as many if not more kids to pick up an instrument, yet you wouldn't take gear advice from her.

And a soft third thing: of the last 40 years, I—and I'm sure many others—would argue that Kurt Cobain has been much more influential than Eddie Van Halen. That's really another topic for another day, but while we're here, there it is.
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So we should take your opinion over mine, Erik's, Peter Green's, Eddie Van Halen's and Wes Montgomery's? OK. Makes sense to me. :fingersx:
 
Ace Flibble said:
Peter Green's was done entirely by accident, though, and how much it changed the sound (if at all) is unknown since the whole pickup was rewound at the same time and the magnet got put in the wrong way around as well. Nothing about his tone was intended and there aren't any clear recordings of how the guitar was before in order to tell exactly how much changed.
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Correct! Greene did not just flip the pickup but also changed the polarity knocking it out of phase, he really doesn't belong in this conversation.
 
The title of this thread is: Any tonal differences if you flip the pickup?

Scroll down about halfway and watch the video "Peter Green 1959 Les Paul Guitar Review With Phil Harris".

Here's the link: The Deep Secret Behind Peter Green's “Magic” 1959 Les Paul Tone | Guitar World

At about the 10 minute mark Phil talks about the neck pickup being turned around 180 degrees. He says at one point Gary Moore turned it back the "right" way and found that the tone changed and that he didn't like it as much. He found that the "soul of the guitar" was with the pickup reversed the way Peter had it. So he reversed it again so that the polepieces of the neck pickup face the bridge.

So now you can add Gary Moore to the list of people who hear a difference when the neck pickup is turned 180 degrees. Gary Moore, Eddie Van Halen, Peter Green, Wes Montgomery and the caretaker of Peter's '59 Les Paul, Phil Harris.

That's a pretty strong list of players who back up ErikH, Clint55 and I, who claim that we have heard a "tonal difference if you flip the pickup".

BTW, on my laptop the sound seems louder and better when I watch the video on this link and don't switch to YOUTUBE: The Deep Secret Behind Peter Green's “Magic” 1959 Les Paul Tone | Guitar World
 
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^^ As I said earlier and Securb reiterates—and as I am now reiterating—Peter Green's pickup (and the whole guitar, really) was messed around with so much, in multiple ways both known and very likely some unknown, that you can't use it to prove or disprove anything. There's a good reason why boutique pickup winders all try their hand at replicating it and no two of them ever agree on how to get there. You just have to write it off as its own unique anomaly.


And, again, how much of a difference there is or isn't when flipping any pickup depends on the construction of that particular pickup and there is no universal rule as to how it's going to work out or what change there will be, if any. I will direct you back to my first comment in this thread about how some pickups do vary greatly when flipped and others are literally physically incapable of sounding different. (Do not forget, there's no magic pixie dust at work here, it's just plain physics; how much, if any, change there even can be, let alone is audible, depends entirely on how balanced the pickup is.)

Lewguitar said:
So we should take your opinion over mine, Erik's, Peter Green's, Eddie Van Halen's and Wes Montgomery's? OK. Makes sense to me. :fingersx:
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That's not what I said, in fact quite the opposite. The point is to take each change on its own merits and not just blindly believe anyone just because they have some form of status. (However, in this particular and specific case, why on earth would you think I wouldn't entertain Peter Green's opinion on something that I already told you I, myself, literally asked him about? Clearly if I ask someone a question it's because I want to know their answer.)

I also strongly suggest you look up 'placebo' in a dictionary.
 
Asymmetrical winding aside, it depends on your polepieces and where it's being rotated. For example:

Slugs have more punch and low end. Slot screws are more open and airy. Allen bolts are more focused / snappy with reduced lows.

So slugs rotated towards the neck will always increase lows and vice versa.
 
I don't think it's a placebo effect and its really easy to try. I recommend anyone to try it out; however, regarding the amount of change... YMMV

One of my guitars, my favorite guitar in fact, has rotated pickups. Sounds better to me! :bigthumb: However, this "mod" is not always better, just depends which guitar and what you're trying to accomplish
 
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