Anybody try artificial double tracking?

C

Chistopher

malapterurus electricus tonewood instigator
My questions refers to a strictly live situation, but what did you find had the best results?

I was considering splitting my signal to stereo after my distortion pedals, running one side direct into my modded JCM800 and the other side through a few more pedals into my buddy's stock JCM800. What pedals should I use on the "wet side"? Delay, compressor, and subtle vibrato seem obvious, but what else can I do?
 
Re: Anybody try artificial double tracking?

An analog chorus that sounds very wet set to low depth and medium-low rate, set mix to taste.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk
 
Re: Anybody try artificial double tracking?

Probably going to be stating a lot of obvious things to an experienced guitarist (but bear with me for those that are not quite as clued up that may read this post).

Don't confuse double tracking (be it artificial or otherwise) with stereo spread i.e. not the same thing. Based on your first post I make the assumption that it's a nice stereo spread you're looking for???

Alright you're talking live here so very different from recording. I say this because I slate and berate the MIMIQ Doubler Pedal from TC Electronic but only when it comes to recording (phase issues and the like). But for live it gives you a great and wide stereo spread (adjustable). And obviously the greater the distance between the two amps. (cabs.) the less of an issue phase becomes. And in this scenario it's a monster. It attempts to pseudo double track as well but really: there's no substitute for actual double tracking (albeit that I've got issues with double tracking anything i.e. been very vocal about the fact that you cannot double track live on stage with one guitarist and I don't see the point of having monster recorded or studio sound and thin live sound).

The above being said: best results, for me, is simply a stereo delay (have a DD-7) but with only the right side going through the pedal (long story) and a delay of between 10ms and 20ms. It's very subtle but extremely noticeable when the delay is off.

Then again: bear in mind that the more different each amp. and cab. is the more of a stereo spread or effect you're going to be getting anyway i.e. may not even need a pedal. This results in the LEAST amount of phase and comb. filtering issues but at the expense of width.
 
Re: Anybody try artificial double tracking?

The demos I’ve heard of the TC Mimic and Strymon Deco sound great for doubling. There’s a Keeley that does it too.
 
Re: Anybody try artificial double tracking?

Archer250 said:
An analog chorus that sounds very wet set to low depth and medium-low rate, set mix to taste.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I absolutely loathe the chorus sound, so that's a non-option for me. I have used a Univibe from time to time to add more depth to my sound, but that's different from AFD.

I've experimented with it recently, and compressing one signal and adding a delay to it does start to create the Illusion of more than one guitar, I'll try some other effects in there later.
 
Re: Anybody try artificial double tracking?

Some amount of delay on one signal
Or ,as Vai would say, "what's the point?"
 
Re: Anybody try artificial double tracking?

The easiest thing here is just throw a delay in to split and run a noticeable but small delay.
 
Re: Anybody try artificial double tracking?

I've never actually tried to mimic that sound live. I guess I always thought live shouldn't really sound like a recorded CD, so I always went for different sounds. I do play in stereo live, though, because that is easy with my Fractal.
 
Re: Anybody try artificial double tracking?

I use the TC mimic live all the time now. Run it into two amps and it gives a pretty impressive impersonation of a twin guitar attack. The sound guys at our venues are often blown away by how convincing it sounds.

Short no frills test (w/two amps in stereo)...just to demonstrate the separation effect. Don't remember which position was what for this demo ..but the mimic will double, triple & quadruple your track, depending on which setting you choose.

 
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Re: Anybody try artificial double tracking?

I used to run a rig on each side of the stage back when that was necessary, bout as close as I could come to that
 
Re: Anybody try artificial double tracking?

Phantasmagoria said:
I use the TC mimic live all the time now. Run it into two amps and it gives a pretty impressive impersonation of a twin guitar attack. The sound guys at our venues are often blown away by how convincing it sounds.

Short no frills test (w/two amps in stereo)...just to demonstrate the separation effect. Don't remember which position was what for this demo ..but the mimic will double, triple & quadruple your track, depending on which setting you choose.

Click to expand...
Was it you that made that recording??? There’s a video on YouTube with the exact same audio track and title??? I watched the video before buying the darn thing. You bastard (if it was you)!!! LOL!!!
 
Re: Anybody try artificial double tracking?

dpaterson said:
Was it you that made that recording??? There’s a video on YouTube with the exact same audio track and title??? I watched the video before buying the darn thing. You bastard (if it was you)!!! LOL!!!
Click to expand...

Well, then I'm going to guess it was probably me. I have so much **** up there it's hard to keep track :lmao:

One thing I do know, if I was going to plagiarize someone else's riffs/licks for a demo ..it would'nt be those ones hhaha :laugh2:
 
Re: Anybody try artificial double tracking?

Just so we’re clear: just kidding with you by calling you a bastard!!! LOL!!! Point is I bought that pedal based on the video that I saw and for the longest time this thing was the greatest disappointment ever i.e. only been very recently that I’ve given it a stay of execution. As I said: live with a good distance between the amps. and cabs. it sounds great and does the job. Bring things closer together and you start hearing that chorusey/flangey/phasey type trip which drives me bonkers. My money still on short delay on one side or simply two different amps. with two different cabs. Maybe also different reverbs on each amp. which increases the width of the perceived stereo field. No artifacts this way.

One thing to note is that it SHOULD be used AFTER distortion (just by the way).

And those riffs are now bugging the living sh*t out of me... And I think I know why... Now I gotta jump out of bed early on a Sunday morning to fire up my studio gear to prove a point to myself... Thanks for that!!! LOL!!!


P.S.

Never mind. Sounds a little similar to some loops in JamVOX. But only a little. Carry on.
 
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Re: Anybody try artificial double tracking?

Not sure if it was mentioned but just copy the track to a separate channel and add something like 15-30ms of delay to one track.
 
Re: Anybody try artificial double tracking?

dpaterson said:
Just so we’re clear: just kidding with you by calling you a bastard!!! LOL!!! Point is I bought that pedal based on the video that I saw and for the longest time this thing was the greatest disappointment ever i.e. only been very recently that I’ve given it a stay of execution. As I said: live with a good distance between the amps. and cabs. it sounds great and does the job. Bring things closer together and you start hearing that chorusey/flangey/phasey type trip which drives me bonkers. My money still on short delay on one side or simply two different amps. with two different cabs. Maybe also different reverbs on each amp. which increases the width of the perceived stereo field. No artifacts this way.

One thing to note is that it SHOULD be used AFTER distortion (just by the way).

And those riffs are now bugging the living sh*t out of me... And I think I know why... Now I gotta jump out of bed early on a Sunday morning to fire up my studio gear to prove a point to myself... Thanks for that!!! LOL!!!


P.S.

Never mind. Sounds a little similar to some loops in JamVOX. But only a little. Carry on.
Click to expand...

Don't care..I'm a complete bastard and love being one ..no problem at all :D

I've never encountered the phasey effect when I play live with two amps (panned hard L-R). ..no trace of it at all. But yeah it does appear when you are'nt running the Mimiq in stereo..
 
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Re: Anybody try artificial double tracking?

As it evolved through the years, //with logistics//:

- 2 amps, one fast (solid state) and one slow (tube), completely different cabs //van//

- the same with a stereo chorus or delay pedal front-end //van//

- 1 amp to the middle + DI preamp with stereo out, chorus FX on //car//

- pedalboard with stereo chorus into 2 DI preamps with cabsims //flightboard//

- TC Mimimq pedal into 2 DI preamps with cabsims //suitcase//

- 1 DI preamp with cabsim into TC Mimiq pedal //pocket//

I am almost entirely sure that the latest one gives the widest meanest result through the PA.

Onstage only, in the studio I prefer good old L/R tracking. It doubles the fun.
 
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Re: Anybody try artificial double tracking?

Stereo chorus with two outputs are made for that but there are other solutions :

Piggy (Voivod) and Brian May used to connect a delay (dry and wet) into different amps : only one repeat for Piggy (2 cabinets) but three AC30 for Queen's live sound.

Another solution that have been used is a slight pitch shift like E. Van Halen on the first album (Eventide).

But you can find something else that work. At the end of the day you just have to try things and see if you like the sound.
Maybe you don't even need to get new gear.
 
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