Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?
- Thread starter Elfunkenstein
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IanBallard
New member
Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?
I think his tone was better in the 90's too. I like fidelity, good amps and guitars. In the Roth era, he played old junk and played the hell out of it, but I prefer his Soldano/5150 tones a lot more. His playing was more interesting and sophisticated too. I am also perfectly sober.
I think his tone was better in the 90's too. I like fidelity, good amps and guitars. In the Roth era, he played old junk and played the hell out of it, but I prefer his Soldano/5150 tones a lot more. His playing was more interesting and sophisticated too. I am also perfectly sober.
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IanBallard
New member
Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?
Yes, Frank was amazing on many levels. One of the most unique guitar players ever.
Yes, Frank was amazing on many levels. One of the most unique guitar players ever.
Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?
he had good and bad live tones in both era's. for his newer live tones i think he gt a great tone on the lve without a net show and the tokyo 89 show.
he had good and bad live tones in both era's. for his newer live tones i think he gt a great tone on the lve without a net show and the tokyo 89 show.
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AudioWonderland
New member
Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?
I am not interested in pursuing it but I have fun talking about it
I am not interested in pursuing it but I have fun talking about it
Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?
:fing2: same here! what i ALWAYS wanted to know is what is the person going to do once they nail it 100% ??? are they going to use it for their own personal tone? are they joining a VH tribute band? I have gotten his older tone more than close enough with my rig(charvel san dimas,kramer baretta,old bray modded SLP)but i use my own original tone for my stuff.
:fing2: same here! what i ALWAYS wanted to know is what is the person going to do once they nail it 100% ??? are they going to use it for their own personal tone? are they joining a VH tribute band? I have gotten his older tone more than close enough with my rig(charvel san dimas,kramer baretta,old bray modded SLP)but i use my own original tone for my stuff.
IanBallard
New member
Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?
Exactly. I've been a fan since I was a kid and have enjoyed every record they've made, more or less. Eddie stands out and few people since have really not only revolutionized guitar playing and tone, but made hit records and memorable melodies. There's lots of "more technically affluent" guitar players but... can you honestly remember their songs? Alex is also one of the best rock drummers out there and was a big influence on my playing. I'd LOVE to get his snare tone, which was the original use of "brown sound" when asked about his warm snare tone in a late 70's Modern Drummer issue.
A couple of my examples of his newer, more smooth tones:
Exactly. I've been a fan since I was a kid and have enjoyed every record they've made, more or less. Eddie stands out and few people since have really not only revolutionized guitar playing and tone, but made hit records and memorable melodies. There's lots of "more technically affluent" guitar players but... can you honestly remember their songs? Alex is also one of the best rock drummers out there and was a big influence on my playing. I'd LOVE to get his snare tone, which was the original use of "brown sound" when asked about his warm snare tone in a late 70's Modern Drummer issue.
A couple of my examples of his newer, more smooth tones:
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Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?
Well since tone is subjective, lets go by which tone is chased more? No one really chases the Soldano peavey tones, because it's not so elusive. It's very preamp generated distortion. A bit fuzzy and compressed and if you use a similar guitar, technique, chorus and one of those amps you have a very close sound.
His original tone OTOH, is very difficult, it's so clean, yet powerful. More of the power amp distortion tone. He liked that Phaser but everytime I saw him, he played very dry. Very few folks have gotten real close to that tone, as it's much more dependent on his hands generating that tone.
Well since tone is subjective, lets go by which tone is chased more? No one really chases the Soldano peavey tones, because it's not so elusive. It's very preamp generated distortion. A bit fuzzy and compressed and if you use a similar guitar, technique, chorus and one of those amps you have a very close sound.
His original tone OTOH, is very difficult, it's so clean, yet powerful. More of the power amp distortion tone. He liked that Phaser but everytime I saw him, he played very dry. Very few folks have gotten real close to that tone, as it's much more dependent on his hands generating that tone.
IanBallard
New member
Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?
I don't know where the hell people get "clean" from the old sound. Maybe, compared to other rock guys in the 70's who used Plexis, but listen to "In 'N' Out" and tell me it's "fuzzy". Subjectivity has its limits.
Soldanos are not just "preamp"-driven. Mike produced a genius circuit that utilizes A LOT of power tube tone. Have you ever played through an SLO? The 5150 was modeled after the SLO with one extra 12AX7. Most guys that use 5150's have NO IDEA how to utilize its tone stack. Most do "chugga-chugga" stuff with it so you get a "distorted" view of its capabilities. The songs on Balance were WAAAAAAAAAY cleaner tone-wise than anything he did with Roth that wasn't a 12-string or piezo guitar like "Secrets" off of Diver Down.
I don't care what is "chased more". People, particularly rock fans, live in a perpetual loop of "vintage" tone, which is fine, but I like progress. I guarantee you, if you had a time machine and handed Eddie a Wolfgang and a 5150 he would have ditched his old rig in a heartbeat. He used what was available then (not much) and made the most of it.
I don't know where the hell people get "clean" from the old sound. Maybe, compared to other rock guys in the 70's who used Plexis, but listen to "In 'N' Out" and tell me it's "fuzzy". Subjectivity has its limits.
Soldanos are not just "preamp"-driven. Mike produced a genius circuit that utilizes A LOT of power tube tone. Have you ever played through an SLO? The 5150 was modeled after the SLO with one extra 12AX7. Most guys that use 5150's have NO IDEA how to utilize its tone stack. Most do "chugga-chugga" stuff with it so you get a "distorted" view of its capabilities. The songs on Balance were WAAAAAAAAAY cleaner tone-wise than anything he did with Roth that wasn't a 12-string or piezo guitar like "Secrets" off of Diver Down.
I don't care what is "chased more". People, particularly rock fans, live in a perpetual loop of "vintage" tone, which is fine, but I like progress. I guarantee you, if you had a time machine and handed Eddie a Wolfgang and a 5150 he would have ditched his old rig in a heartbeat. He used what was available then (not much) and made the most of it.
Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?
I'm not talking about clean tones, lol. I'm talking the quality of the distortion. I've owned 3 Soldanos, including an SLO. The SLO needs to be cranked to ridiculous levels for those power tubes to get workin'. I gigged one for many years, and know the sound well. Master at 6 was just too much, but that's where the power tubes finally filled in the sound. It's still a more compressed sound than an old plexi or even a single ch. JCM 800. Unless you used the crunch channel, and that's what I liked best, because it didn't fizz out as much.
I just like his old Marshall tone more, as do most folks. Nothing to do with vintage. Just a killer, sound, and is unique because it was so dependent on him and his playing to get that sound, not a lot of preamp compression and gain. Listen how clean his live tone was. Single notes sounded very "clean" with not too gainy or fizzy like in the (video right above), but they had sustain.
He probably would've taken a Wolfgang/5150 back then and I'm so glad they weren't around then. He had to work hard for the sound and that's how he got that great tone, by playing the **** out of the guitar and amp. He's said in many interviews that he didn't want to work hard for that sound.
I'm not talking about clean tones, lol. I'm talking the quality of the distortion. I've owned 3 Soldanos, including an SLO. The SLO needs to be cranked to ridiculous levels for those power tubes to get workin'. I gigged one for many years, and know the sound well. Master at 6 was just too much, but that's where the power tubes finally filled in the sound. It's still a more compressed sound than an old plexi or even a single ch. JCM 800. Unless you used the crunch channel, and that's what I liked best, because it didn't fizz out as much.
I just like his old Marshall tone more, as do most folks. Nothing to do with vintage. Just a killer, sound, and is unique because it was so dependent on him and his playing to get that sound, not a lot of preamp compression and gain. Listen how clean his live tone was. Single notes sounded very "clean" with not too gainy or fizzy like in the (video right above), but they had sustain.
He probably would've taken a Wolfgang/5150 back then and I'm so glad they weren't around then. He had to work hard for the sound and that's how he got that great tone, by playing the **** out of the guitar and amp. He's said in many interviews that he didn't want to work hard for that sound.
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AudioWonderland
New member
Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?
Just to be the black sheep I would also propose that the album tones that followed VH1 were not necessarily all that. Fair Warning is a worthy successor tone wise to 1 but I really didn't think the albums in between were really up to that level.
Just to be the black sheep I would also propose that the album tones that followed VH1 were not necessarily all that. Fair Warning is a worthy successor tone wise to 1 but I really didn't think the albums in between were really up to that level.
GilmourD
Burritotoneologist
Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?
The funny thing, though, is that you can get a very brown sound out of a stock 5150. Well, at least I did out of a 5150-II when my boss at the store I used to work at let me borrow it for a week.
It's an interesting amp if you seriously sit and play with the EQ. I had it doing a very good impersonation of my the '65 Fender Dual Showman that I used to have. You also can get a lot of other tones besides EVH's newer tones and the metal tones that everybody's heard ad nauseum.
The funny thing, though, is that you can get a very brown sound out of a stock 5150. Well, at least I did out of a 5150-II when my boss at the store I used to work at let me borrow it for a week.
It's an interesting amp if you seriously sit and play with the EQ. I had it doing a very good impersonation of my the '65 Fender Dual Showman that I used to have. You also can get a lot of other tones besides EVH's newer tones and the metal tones that everybody's heard ad nauseum.
donnievaz
New member
Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?
Ed's setup was very simple. I often wonder why people go to extremes. All he used was a 100 watt Marshall and a strat with a PAF. Of course a phaser /wah /chorus pedal too. But that was about it back in the day.
Ed's setup was very simple. I often wonder why people go to extremes. All he used was a 100 watt Marshall and a strat with a PAF. Of course a phaser /wah /chorus pedal too. But that was about it back in the day.
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lazyfinger
Member
Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?
:lmao::laugh2:
:lmao::laugh2:
Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?
I have a original 5150 watt combo and it gets very brown and i am sure if you have ever heard VHoholic's clips with his you would know what i mean:14:
for whatever reason these can get old school VH very easy?
I have a original 5150 watt combo and it gets very brown and i am sure if you have ever heard VHoholic's clips with his you would know what i mean:14:
for whatever reason these can get old school VH very easy?
JB6464
New member
Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?
And that's why you have to use a Loadbox with that SLO. A master setting on 6 or higher is LOUD , but put a Loadbox after the amp and now you can have the whole package out of the SLO.
Even EVH used a loadbox with his Soldano SLO.
All tube amps sound better cranked no matter what style your playing.
So many people ditch great amps because they really don'y know how to tame a killer tube amp opened up and running like it should be getting the best tones out of the power section.
I've played my SLO and HR100+ amps many years the way you explained but once i put a loadbox on them like i did my Marshall's , it was game over.
Put that master on the SLO on 7-8 with a loadbox , then run your effects after the amp and watch that tube amp put a real big smile on your face.
And that's why you have to use a Loadbox with that SLO. A master setting on 6 or higher is LOUD , but put a Loadbox after the amp and now you can have the whole package out of the SLO.
Even EVH used a loadbox with his Soldano SLO.
All tube amps sound better cranked no matter what style your playing.
So many people ditch great amps because they really don'y know how to tame a killer tube amp opened up and running like it should be getting the best tones out of the power section.
I've played my SLO and HR100+ amps many years the way you explained but once i put a loadbox on them like i did my Marshall's , it was game over.
Put that master on the SLO on 7-8 with a loadbox , then run your effects after the amp and watch that tube amp put a real big smile on your face.
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Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?
I had a hot plate and did the slave power amp thing. (As did everyone back then!) It was good but a lot of shi# to haul to a gig. I didn't like the hot plate when it was attenuated too much, so I still had volume issue. I just preferred the crunch ch. of the SLO. That's a beautiful tone.
I had a hot plate and did the slave power amp thing. (As did everyone back then!) It was good but a lot of shi# to haul to a gig. I didn't like the hot plate when it was attenuated too much, so I still had volume issue. I just preferred the crunch ch. of the SLO. That's a beautiful tone.
Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?
Well there's plenty of ways to skin a cat you know. With EQ, tubes, pickup and hands (a biggie!) you can make anything into anything, or at least close enough.
Even for guitars..My favorite guitar for a similar old VH tone is my tele. A single coil tele. It gets that crisp, tight but clean tone like early VH, especially similar to Jamie. It works with my hands. I hear some single coil quality in his old tone. Not the hum but the percussive, open and clean tone that is similar to a single coil or P90. Other guys might think I'm nuts, but it's how you play it. have to play it aggressively to get that tone out. That's what EVH did on the old gear, yes you can get that gain out of a plexi but you have to have aggressive technique. Sort've learn it from playing those old amps because that's how you get the good stuff out as you couldn't turn up a ton of preamp sustain.
Well there's plenty of ways to skin a cat you know. With EQ, tubes, pickup and hands (a biggie!) you can make anything into anything, or at least close enough.
Even for guitars..My favorite guitar for a similar old VH tone is my tele. A single coil tele. It gets that crisp, tight but clean tone like early VH, especially similar to Jamie. It works with my hands. I hear some single coil quality in his old tone. Not the hum but the percussive, open and clean tone that is similar to a single coil or P90. Other guys might think I'm nuts, but it's how you play it. have to play it aggressively to get that tone out. That's what EVH did on the old gear, yes you can get that gain out of a plexi but you have to have aggressive technique. Sort've learn it from playing those old amps because that's how you get the good stuff out as you couldn't turn up a ton of preamp sustain.
IanBallard
New member
Re: Anyone else sick of all the relentless pursuit of VH's tone?
That's the secret.
That's the secret.