Anyone ever seen a Duncan El-Diablo ?

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Re: Anyone ever seen a Duncan El-Diablo ?

DreX said:
That is interesting. I'm curious to know how they're getting more treble response than usual out of coils of such high resistance. I'd like to know what the resonant peak of the SLUG is, because the El Diablo has a resonant peak of 3.75 KHz, and in general, unless the coils are imbalanced, the response would have to drop off beyond that point. You can have good treble if the drop off is gradual, but in general, the higher output the pickup, the less gradual the drop off. If they are breaking long held rules with these pickups, how are they doing it?
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Why not call or email SD and find out? Also their are no rules as to how you are suppose to build a pup and thats where your logic fails you. You rely on specs too much.

To get back to the OPs question only person that I know who has recorded with it was Dan Donegan with the band Disturbed so maybe check out their songs to get a idea.
 
Re: Anyone ever seen a Duncan El-Diablo ?

DreX said:
I'm curious, why do you put this on me and not masta' c? He was the one who challenged my post, not the other way around.
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MC has used the pickups and is speaking from experience. Your coming from angle of well this is what I "think" Couple that with your past posting habits show a pattern that seems to be starting to form here...

If you are able to listen to his side and go... "Oh ok... I thought it was like this... guess i was wrong" and go on your merry way then the somali pirate comment would be unwarranted.

If you "THINK" MC is wrong try the pickups for yourself and prove to yourself that he is wrong.

But instead we are seeing that familiar pattern of posts picked apart and semantics argued.
 
Re: Anyone ever seen a Duncan El-Diablo ?

darthphineas said:
be careful. people have gotten infractions for saying far less.
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I'm being completely honest. Some of us are discussing pickups while others are posting image macros. If anything should deserve an infraction...
 
Re: Anyone ever seen a Duncan El-Diablo ?

Rockstar216 said:
Why not call or email SD and find out
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Well, to be frank, because people here donate their time wilfully, and the people at SD have a job to do. Not only do I not want to waste their time, it's quite possibly a trade secret.
 
Re: Anyone ever seen a Duncan El-Diablo ?

For the record, they're right. There isn't any frequencies that are pushed or receded, meaning yes, it's even in it's response. Regarding my statement comparing the JB (which is all upper mids), what I mean is that it has cut in those same frequencies. There's typically a drop (or a hole) there with pickups in this DC range (MM, Warpig, Super3, Ironman, etc).

And yeah, it's has a decent clean, split is nice too, better than most.

Just get one and see for yourself, nevermind what you think you know about pickup design.
 
Re: Anyone ever seen a Duncan El-Diablo ?

Lol
DreX said:
Once your involvement in a thread gets to the point of posting images like this, isn't it safe to say that your time could be better spent doing almost anything else?
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Once you start posting numbers in any pickup thread it is extremely safe to say that your time could definitely, without a shadow of a doubt, absolutely, completely be better spent doing something else like playing guitar instead of analyzing numbers until everyone else is blue in the face trying to tell you that numbers aren't the end all and be all of music or life.
 
Re: Anyone ever seen a Duncan El-Diablo ?

King IzzO))) said:
Just get one and see for yourself, nevermind what you think you know about pickup design.
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(emphasis added)


IzzO, you speak the truth.

and a lot of us here back that up. I know I have about 20 CS pickups right now. and about 2x that many production models. several members here put those #s to shame. I can read up on # of turns and wire gauge and type of wire and wire insulation and magnets all day long... and I've seen/heard too many pickups come from MJ's hands to my ears that defy what the numbers suggest.
 
Re: Anyone ever seen a Duncan El-Diablo ?

I can honestly say I have never made a gear decision or purchase based on a stat or number.
 
Re: Anyone ever seen a Duncan El-Diablo ?

DreX said:
Well, to be frank, because people here donate their time wilfully, and the people at SD have a job to do. Not only do I not want to waste their time, it's quite possibly a trade secret.
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No thats not it but if you say so aight. If you really wanted your answer you know how to get it. Put up or ....... well i'm sure you know what to do.
 
Re: Anyone ever seen a Duncan El-Diablo ?

Edgecrusher said:
MC has used the pickups and is speaking from experience. Your coming from angle of well this is what I "think" Couple that with your past posting habits show a pattern that seems to be starting to form here...
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If you read masta'c's post https://forum.seymourduncan.com/sho...an-El-Diablo&p=3680472&viewfull=1#post3680472 , all he has to say about the sound of the pickup is that it's "very well balanced", which Im sure is true enough, but "balance" doesn't directly relate to the original issue, the difference between "compression" and "flat EQ response".

Edgecrusher said:
But instead we are seeing that familiar pattern of posts picked apart and semantics argued.
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Let's live in the present.
 
Re: Anyone ever seen a Duncan El-Diablo ?

Now i can KICK myself that i did not buy an XV500 two months ago.



_c1139938_image_0.jpg
<----NOT the El Diablo in there.
 
Re: Anyone ever seen a Duncan El-Diablo ?

King IzzO))) said:
For the record, they're right. There isn't any frequencies that are pushed or receded, meaning yes, it's even in it's response. Regarding my statement comparing the JB (which is all upper mids), what I mean is that it has cut in those same frequencies. There's typically a drop (or a hole) there with pickups in this DC range (MM, Warpig, Super3, Ironman, etc).
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Just to be clear on the terms used, not just in this thread, but in every thread, when someone says a pickup has "even response", that's a usually associated with a subjective evaluation of sound, as in "not to much of treble, not too much bass", but when someone says "flat response", that's a more technical term meaning the amplitude is literally the same at all frequencies, as measured by a voltage meter, not perceived by ear. "flatter" would mean closer to that, and as masta' c pointed out, a "flat response" is usually not a desirable thing. True "flat response" tends to be perceived as having too much bass and bright treble and not enough mids, like what you hear from a piezo pickup.

King IzzO))) said:
Just get one and see for yourself, nevermind what you think you know about pickup design.
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Rockstar216 said:
No thats not it but if you say so aight. If you really wanted your answer you know how to get it. Put up or ....... well i'm sure you know what to do.
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I 'd like to find out how a coil with such high resistance can have a good treble response, for the sake of knowledge. Not only should I not have to own a thing to gather information about how it works, but even if I did own it, that would not necessarily inform me as to how it works. It would confirm that it does work, but that is not in dispute. I've never said "I don't believe you", more like "I'm surprised that...", but for some reason it seems that posters have interpreted my post that way.

Securb said:
I can honestly say I have never made a gear decision or purchase based on a stat or number.
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To be clear again, I'm not making a purchase decision, I just wish to know how it's able to achieve what it does.
 
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Re: Anyone ever seen a Duncan El-Diablo ?

DreX said:
I've never said "I don't believe you", more like "I'm surprised that...", but for some reason it seems that posters have interpreted my post that way.
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This is anything but expressing your suprise..

DreX said:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/custom-shop/artists-signatu/scott_ian_el_di_1/

Resonant Peak: 3.75 KHz
Inductance: 7.9 Henry

I'm prettttty confident the EQ response is nothing approaching "flat".
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DreX said:
I think that's more likely to be compression at work, because I don't think a pickup with 22K resistance is going to have much potential for a flat response curve.
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This you telling people they are wrong.


Btw iam living in the present and iam watching history repeat itself right now.
 
Re: Anyone ever seen a Duncan El-Diablo ?

OMFGZ dude, now you're going on about even vs flat in reference to response? That's why I explained what I was meaning. I didn't do that for you either, that's for anyone who comes along this thread when doing a search about this pickup 5 years from now.

There was already an expaination provided as to why and how the treble response isn't flat. Tall/narrow coil vs short/wide coil. It's the same concept as a strat single vs. P90. For someone with a vast knowledge of pickup design I would have thought you could deduct that yourself.
 
Re: Anyone ever seen a Duncan El-Diablo ?

Edgecrusher said:
This is anything but expressing your suprise..





This you telling people they are wrong.
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I believe that a) someone had mistaken compression for "flat EQ response", and b) "even response" was mistakenly equated with "flat response". I'm not telling anyone their ears don't work properly. If you believe the El Diablo has a good treble response, I won't challenge your subjective evaluation.

Speaking strictly on a technical level, if a pickup has a resonant peak of 3.75 KHz and is high output, it's literally not "flat response", because flat literally means "no peaks", but beyond that, it's unlikely to even be flat-like. All the high output / low resonant peak pickups I've measured had large output humps in the low to mid range with sharp drop offs in treble. The El Diablo might be unlike those pickups I've measured, but the mystery of how it retains what is described as a relatively high treble response remains. How does placing the magnets between the coil improve high end response versus using screws and slugs? Is the wire gauge something unusual, 44 AWG possibly? I'm curious to know.
 
Re: Anyone ever seen a Duncan El-Diablo ?

King IzzO))) said:
Tall/narrow coil vs short/wide coil.
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This is actually incorrect. The reason a hot coil attenuates high frequencies is because of self-capacitance in the coil.

http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/the-tone-garage/inductance-what-it-is-and-why-it-matters/

the coil acts like a capacitor and if the coil is big, the high frequencies are being ‘bled out,’ like a capacitor (compare it to a capacitor in series with your pickup’s signal to bleed out some of the highs).
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From what I understand, it's principally the size of the coil and it's tendency for self-capacitance that causes the highs to be bled out, not so much the geometry of the coil and magnet, although that might contribute to some extent.

The DC resistance of a P-90 is usually north of 7k ohms, where as a Strat is usually at or below 6k ohms, so there's that.

King IzzO))) said:
It's the same concept as a strat single vs. P90.
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The DC resistance of a P-90 is usually north of 7k ohms, where as a Strat is usually at or below 6k ohms, so there's that.

King IzzO))) said:
For someone with a vast knowledge of pickup design I would have thought you could deduct that yourself.
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You don't have to get rude.
 
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