Anyone find they play better on less expensive guitars?

[treyhaislip]

Re: Anyone find they play better on less expensive guitars?

I do believe there is a misconception that an expensive guitar will play better than a cheaper one...but for acoustics hand down a Martin HD28 plays better than my Eastman E8D. Now, the reason I have an Eastman while I know I play better on the Martin is that I don't see a justification in the $2,200 price difference...I don't play "that" much better on one. For electrics, I've found I play better on guitars with a 9.5" Radius and decent pickups...so it can be a cheap one or an expensive one, I just play better with a certain neck.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Anyone find they play better on less expensive guitars?

@ edgecrusher :

..so what would you say...80%? 70? It's still the name (by far) that you're paying for.

In the end I'll be honest and say..I don't really care how it's been dried. I can tell a good sounding cheap instrument, whatever the drying process may have been (...it's not going to sound great if it's still wet or warped or whatever.)

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Anyone find they play better on less expensive guitars?

@ edgecrusher :

..so what would you say...80%? 70? It's still the name (by far) that you're paying for.

In the end I'll be honest and say..I don't really care how it's been dried. I can tell a good sounding cheap instrument, whatever the drying process may have been (...it's not going to sound great if it's still wet or warped or whatever.)

There is no standard name mark up depends on the company and how much they spend on marketing.

Its obvious you dont care but that doesnt mean it doesnt matter. In a big way the stability of the wood makes a large difference in the stability of the instrument. Its the difference between adjusting a neck every year or every 10 years... or a neck that you can leave in a hot car and take it out of the case covered in humidity and its still in tune. It is a real difference... but hey you dont care... so... enjoy

 

[80's_Metal]

Re: Anyone find they play better on less expensive guitars?

I can play just as crappy on an expensive guitar as I can on a cheap one.

As long as the guitar is set up, and not like some Jr sized pile of kiddie crap that is....

That being said, I have been very pleased over the years with the cheaper Jackson guitars...

The weird thing about guitar is, the more you "think" your guitar is awesome, the more you pick it up... This becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy kind of thing. If you think your Gibson is cooler than your squire, you'll play that one more often and thus....become better with that guitar.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Anyone find they play better on less expensive guitars?

There is no standard name mark up depends on the company and how much they spend on marketing.

Its obvious you dont care but that doesnt mean it doesnt matter. In a big way the stability of the wood makes a large difference in the stability of the instrument. Its the difference between adjusting a neck every year or every 10 years... or a neck that you can leave in a hot car and take it out of the case covered in humidity and its still in tune. It is a real difference... but hey you dont care... so... enjoy

It was 35 degrees this last summer..my guitars are in soft-cases/cardboard boxes. I sometimes pull one out after 6 months & it's almost always in tune. I've never had to adjust my truss rods after I've bought/initially set up a guitar..

Cheap guitars are a hell of a lot more professionally put together than they used to be.

I was just expressing my opinion/sharing my experience & you're welcome to disagree. Does'nt change anything..

 

[blueman335]

Re: Anyone find they play better on less expensive guitars?

Lets not kid ourselves 10% doesnt even cover production cost so saying 90% is name is just....silly

+1. While Gibson has a healthy markup on their guitars, there's still a good deal of materials, labor, and overhead involved to produce a quality guitar, plus the cut for the distributors. Certainly not a 90% markup.

 

[voggin]

Re: Anyone find they play better on less expensive guitars?

For me, there's a bit of a curve. I tend to play better on nicer guitars to a point, but when they are too expensive, I get nervous handling them. I'm happy with a stock american standard tele, say, but my pal has a '57 RI Black Beauty, and I find I worry too much about harming the guitar to really let loose.

Maybe if I had enough money to not give a s*** about replacing something like that, I might be more comfortable.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Anyone find they play better on less expensive guitars?

+1. While Gibson has a healthy markup on their guitars, there's still a good deal of materials, labor, and overhead involved to produce a quality guitar, plus the cut for the distributors. Certainly not a 90% markup.

So you're basically paying for their advertising/distributer cuts/high overheads ..not just the name..lol...my mistake :lmao:

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Anyone find they play better on less expensive guitars?

+1. While Gibson has a healthy markup on their guitars, there's still a good deal of materials, labor, and overhead involved to produce a quality guitar, plus the cut for the distributors. Certainly not a 90% markup.

So you're basically paying for their advertising/distributer cuts/high overheads ..not just the name..lol...my mistake :lmao:

I'm an accountant and can tell you there is SO much unseen costs that go into pricing. Labor is not just wages–benefits, payroll taxes, workers comp/insurance, etc. means that an employee at $15/hr costs more like $25/hr (depneding on the size of the company to spread the costs as well as the benefits offered.) The cost of insurance alone for one plant is very high, not to mention all of the machinery and equipment (which costs money to run, maintain, and eventually replace.) Business licenses for cities, localities, counties, and states adds up as well. Then there are taxes that are not just on income–occupancy taxes (depending on city and/or county/state) and sales tax filings (majority of their sales are most likely tax-exempt as they are a manufacturer) not to mention taxes and tariffs on exotic wood brought in for guitars. And does the average Joe know how to handle the filings for income taxes, state and local licenses, tax exempt license, inventory control and re-order points, payroll for the employees, benefit plans on a state by state level, how to comply to government standards for Accounting and HR?, how to prepare for an annual audit, how to handle a government audit, how to prepare financials for internal and external uses, how to handle an OSHA violation, how to respond to litigation, etc...lots of positions and costs besides just piecing wood together (and if you think that is all Gibson does for guitar building then you are crazy)

Manufacturing in America is very expensive–the costs are way more expensive than most parts of the world and we have a minimum wage unlike countries elsewhere (think about how expensive an iPhone would be if Apple had to pay the Chinese manufacturers' employees US $ minimum wage?)

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Anyone find they play better on less expensive guitars?

I agree & I honestly don't care about Gibson making huge profits or charging astronomical prices. I don't really care for their guitars anyway & would'nt ever buy one.

But saying they have super high overheads..while import guitars don't just goes to prove that cheap guitars are'nt really lacking for quality. Gibson's high overheads/brand value/advertising or whatever..you're paying more for that stuff than you are for the actual instrument.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Anyone find they play better on less expensive guitars?

I agree & I honestly don't care about Gibson making huge profits or charging astronomical prices. I don't really care for their guitars anyway & would'nt ever buy one.

But saying they have super high overheads..while import guitars don't just goes to prove that cheap guitars are'nt really lacking for quality. Gibson's high overheads/brand value/advertising or whatever..you're paying more for that stuff than you are for the actual instrument.

I would say anything MIA (made, assembled, etc.) will have a lot more overhead costs and employee costs than just about any other country. Seriously. Just look at the Auto Unions–Toyota, Kia, etc that manufacture/assemble here in the US pay less than the Big Three–like the costs per employees are around $40-$80 less per employee because of the Union Benefits. Again, if the Cheap Mexican and Chinese guitars had employees being paid the same money with the same benefits as the MIA guys then there would not be the same huge price gap between the two.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Anyone find they play better on less expensive guitars?

I agree & I honestly don't care about Gibson making huge profits or charging astronomical prices. I don't really care for their guitars anyway & would'nt ever buy one.

But saying they have super high overheads..while import guitars don't just goes to prove that cheap guitars are'nt really lacking for quality. Gibson's high overheads/brand value/advertising or whatever..you're paying more for that stuff than you are for the actual instrument.

Lol... unfortunately I have to say "Welcome to capitalism!" The fact is that, whether you like Gibson or not (and for what it's worth, I agree... I can't seem to get along with the feel of their necks), the price they're going to charge is what the market will bear. In a sense, you ARE paying for the name, but you are also paying for higher overhead and higher quality. I don't believe for a minute that a $3000 Les Paul has the same quality of materials and workmanship as my $400 Ibanez RG... there's almost no comparison between the two. My RG is a nice guitar, and I like it. It's also all I can afford! But if I was not limited by finances I would absolutely be playing nicer/higher priced instruments than the ones I have.

Earlier in this thread I pointed out that I don't have any high quality guitars, and the fact is that I don't usually pick them up in the store to play around with either (they give me GAS). I know this much about myself and other musicians however:

• You do the best you can with what you have to work with.
• Pricing and value don't necessarily have anything to do with one another in a universal sense because VALUE is a personal preference and is, therefore, subjective.
• Players are who hold the talent, and practice sharpens that talent. Guitars are simply tools when you get right down to it... some better than others, of course, but tools nonetheless.

That's all I have to say!

 

[DeadandBuried]

Re: Anyone find they play better on less expensive guitars?

Tone comes from your hands and I don't think it matters what 'brand' the guitar is. I have a cheap Squier Strat that I got when I was 13/14 and I've installed the SD "everything axe set" in it, and set it up . It sounds great and I like playing it. I also have a Gibson LP studio which cost less than a standard/traditional. Again upgraded the bridge pickup and changed a few other things but it outplays the more expensive guitars I think. So yeah if its set up well and you can get a good sound out of it then you're merely just paying for the name, I've seen people play $3000 guitars and they sound terrible. On the contrast, I've seen people play $280 guitars and they sound great. Won't lie the craftmanship in the higher priced guitars are better but its a lottery really if you get a good one. Different woods and all that. I wouldn't say I play "better" on a specific guitar though, even though I have 5 different electrics. They all sound good in their own different way and are all set up so I don't struggle to play any of them.

 

[KeeperOS]

Re: Anyone find they play better on less expensive guitars?

Gotta love guitarists. A thread is made about the psychological ramifications of playing a higher end guitar and people still end up bashing Gibson for charging an arm and a leg for theirs. :9:

BTW, there's a difference between "expensive" and "Higher End" although the lines obviously get blurred. Either one could affect people's behavior.

Back to the point, if said expensive guitar was not my own like voggin mentioned then obviously I'd be nervous as well, however when it is mine and I own to own it, not resell it then, no, I won't mind some pick haze on the top.
That said, the other day my belt buckle hit the back edge of my Stinnett, leaving a pretty deep ding (not through the wood but about 1mm deep) and it REALLY hurt. Was pissed for a day or two. Eventually I got over it, still plays as amazingly as before :9:

 

[blueman335]

Re: Anyone find they play better on less expensive guitars?

[*]You do the best you can with what you have to work with.
[*]Pricing and value don't necessarily have anything to do with one another in a universal sense because VALUE is a personal preference and is, therefore, subjective.
[*]Players are who hold the talent, and practice sharpens that talent. Guitars are simply tools when you get right down to it... some better than others, of course, but tools nonetheless.

+1. We tend to obsess here about gear, but the quality and quantity of our practicing has a bigger impact on how we sound. On the typical local bar stage, dimly lit and packed with instruments, amps, speakers, and players, the audience often can't tell the brand names of the gear, nor do they care. Whether it's a MIA or a mid-price import, bring what you feel comfortable playing. Show them what you can do with it; they don't care what you paid for it.

My preference is to under-promise and over-deliver. I'd rather bring mid-price gear to a gig/jam and sound/play better than the musicians in the crowd expect, then to bring high-end gear and feel an obligation to wow them. Yes, it's self-imposed, but that's just me.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Anyone find they play better on less expensive guitars?

I am certainly more brutal is changing cheaper guitars to be the way that I want.

Pickups. Done. Needs a small amount of routing? Sure, whatever.

Fret level. Well it's cheap so just get going today and not on the perfect weekend.

Bridge sucks? Get a new one.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Anyone find they play better on less expensive guitars?

I would say anything MIA (made, assembled, etc.) will have a lot more overhead costs and employee costs than just about any other country. Seriously. Just look at the Auto Unions–Toyota, Kia, etc that manufacture/assemble here in the US pay less than the Big Three–like the costs per employees are around $40-$80 less per employee because of the Union Benefits. Again, if the Cheap Mexican and Chinese guitars had employees being paid the same money with the same benefits as the MIA guys then there would not be the same huge price gap between the two.

Yeah, well that's my point. If you buy a $2000 Gibson, most of that $2000 goes towards higher wages/advertising/higher overheads/costs in general/those sweet profit margins. How much of the $2000 is actually going towards the guitar's materials & quality? With the $500 import you have low overheads/wages/costs in general/profit margins/rain forests just down the road/higher volume sales therefore also contributing to lower costs. The actual 'quality difference' between instruments is'nt as huge as one might think..especially after upgrades/pup swaps/set-ups etc

Pretty sure a decent budget instrument with basic upgrades will be indistinguishable from a way more expensive guitar in a blind test as far as both playability and sound are concerned..

 

[dystrust]

Re: Anyone find they play better on less expensive guitars?

You need to get over it and treat your expensive guitars like your cheap ones....as tools

It's not easy to free it up and have fun when you're worried about a scratch and resale value

+1

I put a 1/2-3/4" long dent in the top of my LP Standard the first time I changed the strings (dropped the stop bar). I was pretty bummed for about 5 minutes, but then I realized that I bought the guitar to play it, so dings & dents were inevitable. The top of the point on my Explorer is down to bare wood, and that doesn't really bother me either.

My favorite guitar to play currently is my ES-335, and it's my most expensive by a decent margin. It's a 2007 model that I bought used in early 2012 with the plastic still on the guard, and it still looks pretty close to new. I know it won't stay that way forever, and it's OK because guitars deserve to be played.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Anyone find they play better on less expensive guitars?

Yeah, well that's my point. If you buy a $2000 Gibson, most of that $2000 goes towards higher wages/advertising/higher overheads/costs in general/those sweet profit margins. How much of the $2000 is actually going towards the guitar's materials & quality? With the $500 import you have low overheads/wages/costs in general/profit margins/rain forests just down the road/higher volume sales therefore also contributing to lower costs. The actual 'quality difference' between instruments is'nt as huge as one might think..especially after upgrades/pup swaps/set-ups etc

Pretty sure a decent budget instrument with basic upgrades will be indistinguishable from a way more expensive guitar in a blind test as far as both playability and sound are concerned..

This is really a subjective conclusion. Most people confuse "playing well" with quality when most guitars that play "poorly" just need a decent setup. But are you wanting to be economical or have the best you can get? MIA Custom Shops offer whatever you are willing to pay for. MIM Strats are getting a decent guitar in the hands of those who want to play guitar without breaking the bank. In a sense its comparing Apples to Oranges (yes they are both guitars but to compare a MIM Strat to a MIA Custom Shop is not a fair comparison–even marketed to different people.)

Manfuacturing variances will result in lemons from MIC to MIM to MIA; however, the higher priced MIAs 99% of the time have a much lower tolerance for flaws and defects than their cheaper counterparts. I've heard a ton of bad things about Gibson; however, everyone I've ever known personally who owned one (myself included) absolutely loved them and did not have any quality issues whatsoever. The MIA Fenders I've own (and still do) did not need the frets dressed (my MIM did) nor did they need the electronics upgraded (my MIM did) and no matter how much money I spent upgrading my MIM they never felt as solid as my MIA. Others don't have the same experience that I have and that is fine. If a MIM or MIK or whatever is the best bang for the buck for you then great! But I would put my Wayne (Wayne Charvel's current company) over any guitar out there–no way you can upgrade your MIM to equal the quality, tone, and feel of that guitar.

 

[voggin]

Re: Anyone find they play better on less expensive guitars?

^ I keep waiting to experience all these terribly made Gibson the interwebz go on and on about. I must be a lucky guy, never seen one.