Anyone play high gain with OPEN back cabs?

[Diego]

I was reflecting a bit about this last night, as I thought a bit on what I'd purchase next guitar-wise.

For Rock sounds, the way most guys would go with a tiny amp head like my Tweaker 15 would be a closed back cabinet with V30s or something, but then I realized that I really like my amp's tone at the moment, only that it sounds small and loses a bit of definition when set loud. I've been using a 1x12 DIY open back cabinet with a Eminence Wizard for more than a year and I like the presence it has. It's very punchy without being screechy or too sizzly. It has a cut that feels just right to me and I'd like to keep using Wizards because I'm used to them.

Every closed back cabinet and amp I've tried has always felt a bit flat to me, except for a Peavey 6505+ which despite sounding sick, is not the tone I'm after. And I absolutely hate the directional nature of closed back cabs for gigs and rehearsals.

Now, I do use fairly high-gain sounds, but I'm not a metal player. If anything, I like what guys like Ty Tabor (King's X) and Brett and Bill from Mastodon get tone-wise. The latest Opeth album (Pale Communion) has some SICK rock tones as well.

I like bright, cutting tones that feel airy and warm somehow, but I wouldn't call it a "vintage" sound either. I find that I'm not as much after a certain tone, as much as the feel I like to get from it. I'll never forget the best tone I've had at my hands, which was a Bogner Shiva 2x12 combo which was, surprise, open back.

I do not need a super tight bass response. And I like to feel bloom and harmonics in my sound, the opposite of a dead two-dimensional bark.

I know the right answer here is "Try them all and tell us later", but what's your experience with this? Am I crazy? I guess a convertible 2x12 cab like the Egnater Tourmaster is the way to go for me.

EDIT:

I also read something last night that I can't find anymore which went like this... someone said that, for open back cabinets, if you're going to be loud, you don't want to have just one speaker doing the job, since it would screw up the sound definition (exactly what I'm facing once I get the power tubes cooking) due to excessive speaker movement.

So he mentioned you'd want to spread the output with at least four speakers to keep them more "still", which would deliver a firmer bass response, and retaining the good stuff of having a open back cab.

In your opinion... Horse**** or truth?
I hate the idea of a 4x12 but I could do with a couple of 2x12.

 

[some_dude]

Re: Anyone play high gain with OPEN back cabs?

I used to run a 2x12 open back combo stacked on a 4x12 cab. It was an Orange AD30 and while not a high gain amp I squeezed it for every drop of gain that it had. My problem (and why it I think it may be applicable to you) is that by the time I had it loud enough to balance the drums the amp was being pushed too hard and loosing definition.

I added the 4x12 to give it some more volume so I wouldn't need to run the amp quite so hard. It did the trick.

I've also run a couple of Marks through 1x12 open back cabs and had no issues with volume or clarity, but we're talking 75 and 90w amps... Therefore, I think the issue is more a function of headroom than speaker choice.

Basically, I'm looking at the 15w Tweaker listed in your signature and thinking the issue isn't the speaker "moving too much", it's that you're driving your amp past the sweet spot.

 

[Securb]

Re: Anyone play high gain with OPEN back cabs?

I played high gain with an open backed Fender Quad Reverb for years. FWIW the bottom cab was a closed back Ampeg V4. I think the combo is what gave me 50% of my tone.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Anyone play high gain with OPEN back cabs?

Mesa half-back 4x12?

I've been using a Carvin 212 for years that's open-back, and have no trouble being heard with a 100w head.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Anyone play high gain with OPEN back cabs?

I use an open back. I actually prefer them, and depending on where you position them in the room, they can get pretty bass heavy. Also, about open backs: Bass frequencies aren't very directional, they emanate from the source in all directions. Higher frequencies are very directional though, especially in a closed back cabinet. With open backs, the midrange and highs are much less directional, as the sound leaves through the back and reflects off of any surfaces behind the amps, while the low end stays omnidirectional. My open back has a much larger opening in the back than usual, so the cabinet can produce a pretty bass-heavy sound if you want it to, but that can be controlled by the amp. It's a 2x12".

As for being too loud whatnot for one speaker in an open back - it depends largely on the cabinet design, and what the amp is doing. If the cabinet is poorly designed/built etc, crap will only sound like crap, but louder as you turn it up. Also, as you get the power tubes cooking, lower the preamp gain to compensate, because keeping the preamp gain high with power tube distortion can muddy up the sound on any cabinet. 15W EL84 amps typically don't have much headroom at all, so the power tubes start getting overdriven pretty quickly, and oversaturation sounds like...too much saturation. Pushing speakers too hard with an overpowered amp will also cause not-so-good speaker breakup.

 

[Stratman]

Re: Anyone play high gain with OPEN back cabs?

You can alway use one of these 'Sound Enhancer' devices, which projects the sound coming out of the back of an open cabinet/combo towards the front and in-phase...

http://www.soundenhancer.com

It works really nicely! (I own two of them)

 

[Aceman]

Re: Anyone play high gain with OPEN back cabs?

I hear you on the closed back. I recently went half-closed on my combo. I kinda dig it. Tight, yet crisp.

Half-closed. Think about it. Or ported….

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Anyone play high gain with OPEN back cabs?

My buddy got an empty store display Orange 4x12 which he loaded some Celestion Creambacks in. It was a plywood cab and all, it just had no speakers, and the back was open. It just had a pair of plywood planks on the top and the bottom of the back. We thought it sounded good at first with his Rockerverb. He later got a back panel for the cab and closed it. We both thought it sounded MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH better then.

Hate to say it, but I'm pretty sure the guys at Mastodon and Opeth use closed back cabinets. AFAIK, one of the guys from Mastodon is using Orange cabs and the other is using... was it Friedman? Akerfeldt was using Laney cabs live. I wonder if he still is. The tone on Ghost Reveries is by far my favorite from them, and that was a Marshall Mode Four cab. Now that's a monster cab.

I don't mean to say closed-back is the absolute best, though. I just personally have never found a cab with an open back that I liked better than a good 4x12 cab with a closed back for the stuff that I play. I have not tried one of the Mesa half-backs, though.

 

[chadd]

Re: Anyone play high gain with OPEN back cabs?

Mesa half-back 4x12?

Those are the perfect solution

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Anyone play high gain with OPEN back cabs?

The Mesa Half-Back 212 and 412s are a big part of why I love my Mesa amps. And I add the Mesa 112 Thiele cab when I use a combo, a similar concept. I love the airiness of an open-back, but I like the tighter bass and the push of the closed back cab.

Best of both worlds.

Bill

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Anyone play high gain with OPEN back cabs?

I'm not particularly anal about cabs...but I do prefer closed backs in general (they're airy/warm/sweet enough for me..it's all in the amp tweaking) Having said that I've found I can dial a sweet tone in with any type of cab if it's built ok & the speakers are decent.

 

[chewpac]

Re: Anyone play high gain with OPEN back cabs?

I've done it several times with no issue...depends how high gain you want to go. from what you describe, you should be fine with a decent open back cab. if you need to super tight, percussive start-stop djenty riffy tech metal type of thing, it's not ideal.

I am able to get stellar tones from my amptweaker tight rock through my fender hot rod deluxe. it doesn't look like a rock/metal rig at all, but it sounds killllleeeerrrrr....

it's not a 5150 through a closed back, but it gets the job done very well, and really sounds great.

 

[JRSOLDJA]

Re: Anyone play high gain with OPEN back cabs?

I was reflecting a bit about this last night, as I thought a bit on what I'd purchase next guitar-wise.

For Rock sounds, the way most guys would go with a tiny amp head like my Tweaker 15 would be a closed back cabinet with V30s or something, but then I realized that I really like my amp's tone at the moment, only that it sounds small and loses a bit of definition when set loud. I've been using a 1x12 DIY open back cabinet with a Eminence Wizard for more than a year and I like the presence it has. It's very punchy without being screechy or too sizzly. It has a cut that feels just right to me and I'd like to keep using Wizards because I'm used to them.

Every closed back cabinet and amp I've tried has always felt a bit flat to me, except for a Peavey 6505+ which despite sounding sick, is not the tone I'm after. And I absolutely hate the directional nature of closed back cabs for gigs and rehearsals.

Now, I do use fairly high-gain sounds, but I'm not a metal player. If anything, I like what guys like Ty Tabor (King's X) and Brett and Bill from Mastodon get tone-wise. The latest Opeth album (Pale Communion) has some SICK rock tones as well.

I like bright, cutting tones that feel airy and warm somehow, but I wouldn't call it a "vintage" sound either. I find that I'm not as much after a certain tone, as much as the feel I like to get from it. I'll never forget the best tone I've had at my hands, which was a Bogner Shiva 2x12 combo which was, surprise, open back.

I do not need a super tight bass response. And I like to feel bloom and harmonics in my sound, the opposite of a dead two-dimensional bark.

I know the right answer here is "Try them all and tell us later", but what's your experience with this? Am I crazy? I guess a convertible 2x12 cab like the Egnater Tourmaster is the way to go for me.

EDIT:

I also read something last night that I can't find anymore which went like this... someone said that, for open back cabinets, if you're going to be loud, you don't want to have just one speaker doing the job, since it would screw up the sound definition (exactly what I'm facing once I get the power tubes cooking) due to excessive speaker movement.

So he mentioned you'd want to spread the output with at least four speakers to keep them more "still", which would deliver a firmer bass response, and retaining the good stuff of having a open back cab.

In your opinion... Horse**** or truth?
I hate the idea of a 4x12 but I could do with a couple of 2x12.

personally I prefer closed back cabs for high gain/ rock & metal. With open back cabs you do get a different tone but lose a lot of the "percussion" and punch to your sound. This goes for both 4x12 and 2x12 cabs in my opinion.