Approaches To Music Theory

[gordon_39422]

In response to a current thread in which I decided to apply my hard-earned musical knowledge, it became apparent that most "musicians" have a near-sighted approach to music....

Aside from all the techniques people learn, music in basic math, at best... meaning that when you come to one deduction, there is another one at work...

For instance, the applications of scales....

I have witnessed people analyze the C Major scale to such extents...

C Ionian
D Dorian
E Phrygian
F Lydian
G Mixolydian
A Aeolian
B Locrian

Whilst all that is true, what APPLICATION does that have when playing music?

Other than identifying the parallel scales in a given key, when does a G Mixolydian apply to a C Major scale?

What about the approach that you learn realtive scales... Sure, you can organize the notes in a C major to come up with these aforementioned scales, but does that help you play a I-IV-V in the key of C?

If it does, then you have a great grasp of scales/modes, and should proceed drirectly to muscial instruction as an occupation, a lucrative one at that...

Now, in my tenure at the Atlanta Institute of Music, we not only learned the textbook analogies of the aforementioned scales, but learned the applications while improving...

For instance, in a G-Blues progression consisting of G7, C7, and D7, why would you play anything but G Mixolydian over G7, C Mixo over C7, and D Mixo over D7? The exception being the respective Blues scales, of course... However, if you analyze them, they are nothing more than a major pent with the b7 that is predominant in the progression to begin with....

I dont understand how someone would think it far-fetched to play 3 different scales that emphasise the relationship between the chord and the scale... To create the "7" cords in this case, you would use the Mixo scales for the respective chords... If anyone sees any fallacy in my train of thought, please inform me, and I will audit the classes I attended to learn more...

But, the fact remains that a Mixo Mode follows this pattern....

1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 1

In the case of G, this is true....

1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 1
G A B C D E F G

Sure, you can say that G Mixo is the 5th mode of C Major, but do you understand that to construct a chord, you stack 3rds....

Check this out....

1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 1
G A B C D E F G

1 3 5 b7
G B D F

That is, correct me if I'm wrong, the G7 chord, is it not?

Then why would is seem absurd to play the scale over the chord, by which the chord was created?

I can understand if you would like to play the blues scale, as it only adds color to the predominantly major tones....

But to understand this, dont you have to know the major scale in the first place?

G Blues
1 b3 4 b5 5 b7
G Bb C Db D F

In the case of the Blues scale, the b3 is generally used to add tension as you lead to the 3rd, and release... It gives a sense of resolution, even though the tonic hasn't been played....

I personally use the Blues/Mixo Hybrid....

1 2 b3 3 4 b5 5 6 b7 1
G A Bb B C Db D E F G

I was just wondering why so many people view scales in a linear fashion, when they are so mobile...

Any kind-hearted explanations are sincerely welcome.. I would love to understand the flip-side of this one... To those content on flaming... You WILL be ignored...

Thanks,
Allen

 

[iratecaller]

Re: Approaches To Music Theory

You're absolutely right.

Switch modes, explore the chord / scale relationships.

Accent whichever degree you see fit.

Break 'rules' .. it's all just experimentation really. Then taking pen and paper to draw out what's happening in the music that's so desireable, really helps. Makes a person see the how the scales fit in the big picture.

Maybe some people have rationalized someone else's style down to rigid rules that dicate what's to be played over a particular chord progression.

Or maybe some just need to solo over a pre-recorded single chord lick and force themselves to start and finish their licks on different degrees to fully apreciate it.

Or maybe they just really love a particular style and have defined a rulset for themselves to serve as a 'guide to success' in their particular quest. Perfectly valid. Great for style study.

Who knows man, but you're right on the money from a creative standpoint.

I'm not guru myself, never attended music school, but understand the gist of the chord/scale relationship in standard western music.

It's limitless really. Makes one apreciate how little one knows, and that in some cases this is a welcomed revelation. There's always a cool lick waiting around the 'bend' if you're willing to look.


Tristan

 

[gordon_39422]

Re: Approaches To Music Theory

damn man, that has to be the most insightful post I have ever read regarding theory... Much less, the FIRST post????

Let me be the first to say, WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!!

With and open mind like yours, you are sure to find a home.... Not to mention, we can all learn from you, as well....

Again, Welcome Aboard Tristan.....

Allen

 

[Bludave]

Re: Approaches To Music Theory

I approach scales in a similar way. I do use the modes that apply to the chord name being played, but I also prefer the tone of certain modes in certain positions on the fingerboard. Playing a Mixo starting on the 6 string in certain instances is to dark, so I will play it in a different register to get the right(in my ears) tonic sound. I agree that one needs to explore the fingerboard and "break rules", but you can't break the rules if you don't know them. Understanding basic music theroy is Key to being able to improvise over anything that is being played. You have to know where ALL the notes on the fingerboard are. If you are playing in the Key of Bb you really need to focus on where all the Bb, Eb, and F notes are as well as the G(relative minor). Then yopu can build the scale patterns in any positon you desire.

 

[gordon_39422]

Re: Approaches To Music Theory

My post is in no way discrediting the inherent value of music theory... Quite the opposite, in fact. I DO know all the notes on the fingerboard, but that is irrelevant if you dont know the notes in the scale.

My post is less about breaking the rules, and more about applying the scales...

I definitely use all 5 patterns, I also move to different positions of the neck to spice it up... I just dont understand why people look at the modes to decide what solo goes where...

If you simply analyze the chord, the answer is there... You spend less time tryning to decide what to play, and more time playing... We all know that understanding the appropriate scale is only a portion of the battle... Creating and linking riffs is the more dificult part...

 

[iratecaller]

Re: Approaches To Music Theory

Thanks for the warm welcome Allen.

Yeah I didn't mean "break the rules" in the traditional sense .. such as throwing random notes in there.

What I ment to say was, "find out what sounds cool together, then write it all down using fretboard diagrams and what not, and you'll most often find that you're playing in a very specific mode". Be it a riff, solo, whatever.

First off, everybody check out Allen's info in this thread.

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=41255

So when I decided to take a first step towards a better understanding of scales, here's what i did:

(Uhm this is not directed at Allen, but hopefully beneficial to others.)


1- I made a fretboard diagram with the CMajor scale all over the neck using all the strings. (No numbers, just black dots.) Do , Re , Mi ...

2- Since each mode (Aolian, Dorian ..etc) start on differing degrees of the major scale, I made 7 copies of my diagram. (Took me 2 hours to understand modes with the proper tutorial.)
Refer to: https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=41255


3 - Openned up the first copy and made all the C notes red. Next copy, I made all the D's red, then the E's .. etc etc.

4 - Now I have 7 charts that represent the 7 modes all over the neck and renamed the files as such:

C - Major / Ionian
D - Dorian
E - Phrygian
F - Lydian
G - Mixolydian
A - Aolian
B - Locrian

*** Keep in mind that by using "dots" instead of numbers, it makes the patterns moveable. So you don't have to play G myxolidian, you can play B Myxolidian if you like. Just pick a red dot, pick a random note on your guitar and follow the pattern.

5 - Considering the red dots as the "main note" of a riff, forced myself to play riffs over each of my fretboard diagrams. (Start and stop on the red dots.)

Now this in itself is not the proper way to solo in a 'mode' . A good way however is to record yourself strumming a CMajor chord, then solo over the recording in G Myxolidian, or A Aolian, etc etc. (Basically, just pick a fretboard diagram, choose a red dot, and roll with it.)

Or strum a G7 and solo in CMajor .. whatever it all works.

PHASE 2

6 - Knowing the I-III-V-VII rule of constructing chords , I then moved on to placing the numbers I-II-III-IV-V-VI-VII ... all over my first fretboard diagram.

Took all the tightly grouped I-III-V , II-IV-VI .. (and sevenths as well)
and made myself some chord charts. (Since I built them, it was easier for me to understand them as they wheren't just random chords in a 1000 page book of chords. Referring to the Guitar Grimmoire series of books which are EXCELLENT, and own 3 of em. Highly recomended.)

The work took a few hours, but the WORK is part of the reason why i actually remembered some of these. (Yep. Only remembered some.)

Perhaps the best way to teach others about this, is to teach them to help themselves by showing them the arithmetic behind determining steps in a scale, as well as chord building, then saying:

"OK, now that you know the basics and have the tools, you MUST create your own charts, cause if you don't, then you'll complain for the rest of your life."

OK maybe that was overboard.

PHASE 3:

Key signatures.

PHASE 4:

Progressions with key changes.
Finding parallel scales.

Tristan

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: Approaches To Music Theory

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

what?

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Approaches To Music Theory

I would also say that it's not enough to intellectually know the modes -- you have to FEEL them. You have to be able to hear each mode in your head and the mood it creates -- it should almost have a taste in your mouth.