Are $8K to $10K CS Les Paul's really necessary ?

[Aceman]

Heritage Series (R8s & R9s, etc) are non-weight-relieved, and they too have the long-tenon neck joint.

Again - this whole argument is based on:

Long tenon necks sound better/hold up longer. There is no real evidence to suggest this at all. People bought short tenons for years before they even knew that Gibson changed and raved about the tone, and I have NEVER seen an LP with a neck broken at the body joint.

As for Chambering - also makes the assumption that heavier is better or whatever. Mahagony weight / density could vary quite a lot. If you listened to 10 LPs - would you pick a weight relieved on as "More comfortable and resonant / open sounding" or would you pick a solid one as being "more solid and vibrant"

You don't know if you KNEW ahead of time what you were playing.

All I'm seeing is excuses for spending more.

 

[Aceman]

The cheaper LPs are all chambered/weight relieved. The custom shop don't butcher their bodies. That's one big difference.

If you were not in the Custom shop watching do it - you have no idea what they did. Gibson as a company, flat out lies and is deceptive by omission.

If they DID NOT STATE that it was solid - you have no idea if they chambered something out or removed a knot/rot spot just to use the wood or not without taking an x-ray.

 

[Aceman]

The one part that you all leave out is the difference on how they are made in the Custom Shop and the time and labor. They are made by master craftsman, not somebody working on the line where Joe glues the necks and bodies, Sandy puts on the filler, and Tony puts on the binding, etc., etc.. The custom shop guitars are built by one of the master craftsman, start to finish. They CNC the body and neck, they sand it, they paint it, they do it all. Their time and labor costs money. More than the standard production line. It takes a lot longer to make a CS guitar than it does a standard production line guitar because of the attention to detail.

If somebody wants one, good for them. Most of the time they're collectors.

So you are saying "Made by hand" is better than "Made by machine." I say humans have good days, bad days, don't care days, and that Gibson over pays for poor quality. For $5k+ I want a mother &^$%% perfect guitar and no excuses. One of those guys gets startled by a loud noise and sands a little to hard - I got $10 says they don't throw it out.

Example: The nut. You don't think I can't find a crappy nut on a CS shop guitar? You are smoking dope.

 

[Bogner]

Each guitar at any price point is unique. When you find one that speaks to you, what is that worth to you? Only you can answer that. BUT......I don't see what makes them so expensive. I get the Murphy aged thing. I get custom shop. I get Gibson vs Epi. What I don't get is in the upper levels of the line I don't really see what differentiates the price points. Theres that 6K (ballpark up or down) range and then there is the 8K upward range. Parts wise, lumber wise, etc, I don't see a difference aside from the price. That is what gets me. Anyway, not a huge Gibson fan and haven't been for a good while. Maybe the answers to my confusion are easily found if I cared enough to really dig and look. If I were going to pay 10K on a guitar it sure wouldn't be a Gibson.

 

[NegativeEase]

If they come with Slash's fingers and touch.... they are definitely worth it.

 

[ErikH]

So you are saying "Made by hand" is better than "Made by machine." I say humans have good days, bad days, don't care days, and that Gibson over pays for poor quality. For $5k+ I want a mother &^$%% perfect guitar and no excuses. One of those guys gets startled by a loud noise and sands a little to hard - I got $10 says they don't throw it out.

Example: The nut. You don't think I can't find a crappy nut on a CS shop guitar? You are smoking dope.

Have you seen the processes there now? There is machine work but there is also a lot by hand in the regular line. The Custom Shop goes a bit more by hand though with a lot more attention to detail with higher grade woods, etc..

But, I forgot that there are experts here that know everything so I'll just leave it alone, shut-up, and play my LP Trad Pro.

 

[Clint 55]

My 1k Warmoths that I work on and assemble have more attention to detail than any stock Gibson. It's making a guitar at that price point. Not going through necessary building processes and then assigning the appropriate price.

 

[ehdwuld]

The neck on that guitar is as likely to warp as any other Les Paul.
- 3 piece maple doesn't warp....not really.

Might I treat it better? Perhaps. But that has NOTHING to do with the quality of the instrument itself.

by warp
I meant

grab the back of the neck and push in on the body to bow or warp the neck
to do a kinda trem bar dive bomb on a guitar that is not equipped with one

but read as you will

 

[ehdwuld]

Each guitar at any price point is unique. When you find one that speaks to you, what is that worth to you? Only you can answer that. BUT......I don't see what makes them so expensive. I get the Murphy aged thing. I get custom shop. I get Gibson vs Epi. What I don't get is in the upper levels of the line I don't really see what differentiates the price points. Theres that 6K (ballpark up or down) range and then there is the 8K upward range. Parts wise, lumber wise, etc, I don't see a difference aside from the price. That is what gets me. Anyway, not a huge Gibson fan and haven't been for a good while. Maybe the answers to my confusion are easily found if I cared enough to really dig and look. If I were going to pay 10K on a guitar it sure wouldn't be a Gibson.

I think getting one with the neck shape and/or color you want to be a cool option
I am sure there are other options you can get if you are willing to pay for them

>Keisel does it that way
the more you get off the standard options, the more it costs
it you want Jeff to hand select the wood, there is an upcharge for that
special neck shape? ca-ching

>PRS will do it too
I just saw a video where a YouTuber sat with Paul and got the color and neck shape and pickups, etc that he wanted
I didnt see what he was charged but if you have the cash you can have that experience

Gibson custom shop will do that as well
for around the same price point

I can see it

 

[Clint 55]

Ca-ching

 

[LLL]

Back in '89 I paid $1,600 for a lefty LP Black Beauty... waited 6 months for it.

Today, it prolly would cost me ~$4,000 to get one; maybe more cuz it's lefty.

Now, between the two guitars, there's not much, if any, difference (if Gibson is doing ebony fretboards nowadays)

So, have to ask yourself this question:

"What extra value am I getting for $2,400 more; getting a new one today?"

And the answer, of course, is:

"Not a goddamned thing."


Look, Gibson prices are beyond insane today; even for their regular stuff.

And the way you fix bullshit is by not buying into it.

 

[Aceman]

Well, the customer defines "value" so if the $2400 is worth it to you, great.

But don't say it makes a bit of difference in the playability or sound of the guitar.

As stated, I'm not paying that for nearly any guitar. Except obviously, an EXACT replica of Ace Greeley's 1974 Cherry Sunburst Custom!!!!! To very very few people is that guitar "worth" what "I" was willing to pay for it. That said - it plays exceptionally well.

Does it sound any better than my 1973 Standard with a SuperDistortion? Heck no. But like I said - that isn't the point. For me. For most everyone else, I agree. I'd feel the same way about a Billy Gibbons Pearly Gates. Just get an LP Classic, and drop a set of Pearlies in it. Good to go.

And I have one;y paid sticker for one Les Paul EVER - and doubt I'd do it ever again.

 

[Aceman]

Have you seen the processes there now? There is machine work but there is also a lot by hand in the regular line. The Custom Shop goes a bit more by hand though with a lot more attention to detail with higher grade woods, etc..

But, I forgot that there are experts here that know everything so I'll just leave it alone, shut-up, and play my LP Trad Pro.

I don't know what has been up the past 6-9 months, nor do I care. They have offed up so much it doesn't matter to me.
- I don't care about your processes; I only care about a flipping' perfect guitar for $2k
- At $5k, I don't care if you have to sacrifice Virgins to the Quality Gods. It should be beyond reproach and I should feel ashamed to even ask

But the truth is you BETTER ask. I have seen some jacked up stuff for ridiculous prices. Is it half of them? No. Is it 20% of them? No. But it shouldn't be 1 in 1000, and the tolerance for "Fail" is extremely low. It's not even stuff that would make them unplayable. Not the point. I could go grab any LP off the wall, play a gig just fine.

But I can also do that with my $299 Jacson JS32. There are more Gibsons with issues than JS32's. If I spent $2k on an Ibanez, A Dean, a Hamer, a Gretsch or whatever -- I wouldn't even look. For $1500 I'll go over the Gibson with a magnifying glass - because it is not unreasonable.

 

[JMP/HBE]

Well, the customer defines "value" so if the $2400 is worth it to you, great.

But don't say it makes a bit of difference in the playability or sound of the guitar.

As stated, I'm not paying that for nearly any guitar. Except obviously, an EXACT replica of Ace Greeley's 1974 Cherry Sunburst Custom!!!!! To very very few people is that guitar "worth" what "I" was willing to pay for it. That said - it plays exceptionally well.

Does it sound any better than my 1973 Standard with a SuperDistortion? Heck no. But like I said - that isn't the point. For me. For most everyone else, I agree. I'd feel the same way about a Billy Gibbons Pearly Gates. Just get an LP Classic, and drop a set of Pearlies in it. Good to go.

And I have one;y paid sticker for one Les Paul EVER - and doubt I'd do it ever again.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/23390725837...EAAOSwaRFgNRcP

Case & point & reason i started this thread. I can get the same features as the guitar above for $2K.
Cool guitar but crackheads at Gibson need to be reigned in price wise.
Plus if i bought this guitar it would never leave the house also wouldn't be able to swap pickups w/o hurting the resale value.
Its basically a museum piece.
Yesterdays $5K LP is todays $18K.
Insanity.

 

[Clint 55]

Hammond does rip-a-jip price gouging also. The music stand for my organ is $300 lol! It probably costs $20 to manufacture. Check their new console organ, the new B3 which is digital and doesn't sound better. You can get a real vintage B3 for 5-10k, or the new portable B3 rig for 10k, but if they make it console it's 27k lmao.

 

[Securb]

Is my Lexus ES300 "better" than a Toyota Camry? It is pretty much the same car, goes from point A to point B. They are both made by Toyota, Same bodies and engine blocks. The bottomline is it is my money and I don't care if people see the value in the Lexus I see. You are not driving it or paying for is so your opinion is invalid to me. I feel the same way about my Gibsons.

 

[JMP/HBE]

 

[esandes]

Heritage Series (R8s & R9s, etc) are non-weight-relieved, and they too have the long-tenon neck joint.

Gibson's site shows a $2000 heritage as weight relieved and with shitty pickups I never even heard of.

You get what you pay for.

 

[Clint 55]

Ya. I can make a custom warmoth with custom Fralins that he wound with wire spun from unicorn's pubes for less than that.

 

[LLL]

Ya. I can make a custom warmoth with custom Fralins that he wound with wire spun from unicorn's pubes for less than that.

Funny you say that, because I've done exactly that. Although with Callaham H/SRV pickups (which are actually Fralins that Bill Callaham does his "thing" to).