Are All These Positions usable?

G

Gary1962

New member
Just looked at the great diagrams of the Jimmy Page mod drawn up by someone on the forum and i was wondering are all these positions and possibilities usable or are some positions kinda indistinguishable from others? That seems like a very complicated set up. Does Page actually use that on all his Les Paul's? Seems too complex and you could get mixed up where you were as opposed to just working with a couple of coil taps.

I'm trying to follow how it all works and finding it difficult. I'm just getting into wiring and have went through the lessons in the diploma course on the main site but i'm losing the plot with the Page wiring because of all the connections between poles on the switches!! :laugh:
 
Re: Are All These Positions usable?

Everyone has different opinions. Mine is configured SH-5/SH-1. Personally I like all the standard LP positions, all of the split positions (N, N&B, B), full HBs out of phase and all Split/Series. The other permutations are decent, but nothing I can't live without. What I've learned is that I'm good with a single push/pull that splits both, and a push/pull for phase. (The series is cool, but not especially required for me)
 
Re: Are All These Positions usable?

The thing to remember about Page is that he does a lot of layering on studio tracks, and may only use a given setting for a single chord or stinger. Flipping a couple of switches to get a precise tonal shift is much easier than fiddling with a box of knobs just for one little accent that may be a bit finicky at the moment.

Ergo, the JP wiring scheme is not something I see having any benefit to a live performance, unless you're in a Zeppelin cover band. For that matter I seriously doubt half of the people who use that wiring mod do so to its fullest potential. Maybe two or three options at most that could be obtained more easily with fewer switches.
 
Re: Are All These Positions usable?

Thanks guys for the replies. I think it's a great mod for getting a lot of great tones but like you say probably not something that you definitely need. Still it's an intriguing thing to do for a LP and DrNewcentstein i like your point about Page layering a lot of sounds, that mod would be real handy for that, just tweaking the tone ever so slightly.
 
Re: Are All These Positions usable?

Technically all are 'useable.' However many are very similar and not used by most people. Who's going to use all 21 positions? There are some very good positions though. Coil cut is handy, as is phase (bridge tone pot), especially when the PU's are linked in series (neck tone pot). Series is pretty dark when both PU's are in HB mode, but is a nice boost when the neck PU is in coil cut (neck vol and tone). You may actually use 4 or 5 options with the push-pulls, but not 21. You have to decide if it's worth it for you.

And yes, it could be wired more simply than it is.
 
Re: Are All These Positions usable?

Even individual coil splits can make things complicated for me, which is why I've got one push/pull for both humbuckers in my #1.

Jimmy Page had a thing with layering, and some sounds that might feel terrible on their own, add some nice spice and sizzle in a mix and he had a privileged ear for that.

But I don't. And I certainly don't do a ton of layering when recording (not that I record too often) so I try and make things simple for me.
So that's where it comes from.

Want to be confused a bit more? Try Steve Morse explaining the four pickups and three switches on his signature model...



That makes my head hurt.
 
Re: Are All These Positions usable?

Thanks blueman. Yeah i gave up trying to work out every possibility and combination as it was just too difficult to get a handle on all the combinations of the coil taps and the switch connections!! I've just been studying all the parts of the wiring 'Diploma' on the main site and getting a handle on it all, so i thought when i saw the JP wiring thing i'd have a look to see what all the fuss was about.

Man! it's complex!:help::laugh:
 
Re: Are All These Positions usable?

Ah! Diego, that's enough to give someone a major headache!! LOL! That's just too much isn't it? Endless possibilities but as one of the guys said surely many of the combinations will be very similar? I think as well would the audience even be able to tell the difference in most of the different tones? Maybe some would, but maybe not a lot at concert volume level where a lot of subtle differences can be washed out by the volume.
 
Re: Are All These Positions usable?

I love the Gibson Les Paul Junior.
 
Re: Are All These Positions usable?

Gary1962 said:
but as one of the guys said surely many of the combinations will be very similar? I think as well would the audience even be able to tell the difference in most of the different tones? Maybe some would, but maybe not a lot at concert volume level where a lot of subtle differences can be washed out by the volume.
Click to expand...


Right. With room acoustics, other instruments, and people talking, on stage most of the differences are too slight to be heard by an audience, some of them even by the player himself.

There's simple wiring diagrams for coil cut and individual diagrams for phase and series. You can pick and choose what you want. I've used phase and series push-pulls on P-90 guitars. For neck HB's, spin-a-split is far for versatile than coil cut, as you can dial in how much you want of unbalanced coils.
 
Re: Are All These Positions usable?

These wirings with a gazillion sounds are useful to find out what you really want in a guitar. Some of them may prove impractical for stage use.

I tried some more sophisticated wiring schemes for strats (such as the strat lover's strat or the strat SP both of which offer series and out-of-phase combinations with push-pull pots respectively fader pots but still provide "almost stock" operation if you ignore the extras). I found that the only combination I used most apart from the standard strat positions was neck + bridge in parallel and in phase (the tele in-between tone). The series tones were too muddy for me and the out-of-phase tones too cocked-wha sounding. But that's just me, and I would never have found out if I had not tried it.
 
Re: Are All These Positions usable?

Everyone has good replies so far, and I basically agree.

The simple answer to your question is absolutely..."NO".

Most of the different options are so tonally subtle that no one will be able to tell the difference. In a live setting, most people, and I strongly emphasize MOST, won't even be able to tell the difference between coil split and parallel. And since parallel has great clarity and is a more complex tone than coil cut, the simple solution for "simplicity and yet tonal variation" for a live situation is series/parallel for individual pups with an option to add series between bridge and neck pups.
 
Re: Are All These Positions usable?

In a few JP wiring schemes you find more that a couple of switch combos that produce no sound at all.
 
Re: Are All These Positions usable?

AlexR said:
In a few JP wiring schemes you find more that a couple of switch combos that produce no sound at all.
Click to expand...


The diagram I use has only one: when the PU's are linked in series (neck tone pot up), if you flip the toggle to the bridge position it shorts out and produces no sound.
 
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Re: Are All These Positions usable?

Good posts guys. You know i came across something else i've never heard of before but you guys who are more experienced with guitar wiring will; It's called the Freeway switch. Have you heard of it? I was looking at web sites for parts and i was looking at the switches section and there it was. It basically looks just like an ordinary les Paul toggle switch but it has 6 positions with a host of other sounds on tap. This is the connection with this thread because they say Jimmy Page was using it at these Atlantic records concerts. Whether he used it before in any of his LP's i don't know but it's very interesting.

I remember a while back reading an article on JP and it said if i'm not mistaken that he had mini switches under the scratchplate of his LP!! I'm sure i remember that! and he activated a lot of his sounds from there.

Anyway i remember back years ago watching The Song Remains The Same and the concert from Madison Square Gardens and asking myself how the hell he got all those thinner type sounds out of a LP that looked completely stock!!

Page is a magician. Here's the link to the article and video of "For Your Life"

http://www.axesrus.co.uk/NSF-Freeway-Switch-Brass-Gold-p/nsf3x3-03-gd.htm
 
Re: Are All These Positions usable?

Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong, but his Les Pauls never had the "Jimmy Page Wiring", that was done for the 1996 Jimmy Page signature LP to approximate some of the switching he has used over the years. It's been kept alive by nerds like us that are all like "I need 40-million pickup wiring sounds in this guitar".

IMO, it's good to determine what sounds you like, then wire only those options in your guitar.
 
Re: Are All These Positions usable?

Hi PF, Yeah i don't really know what switching he has in his original LP's. I remember that tale about the scratchplate and tapping on it would bring in a mini switch as a coil tap but it don't even know if that was true or not. But seeing and hearing him on the concerts from the song remains the same era he's getting a lot of tones out of one Les Paul so i think he must have had a coil tap or something there somewhere. I mean i thought that live there's no way anyone could keep track of that intricate system in the JP wiring and be able to utilize it without thinking.

I wish someone would do an interview and ask him about it so we would finally know!!!!
 
Re: Are All These Positions usable?

PFDarkside said:
Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong, but his Les Pauls never had the "Jimmy Page Wiring", that was done for the 1996 Jimmy Page signature LP to approximate some of the switching he has used over the years. It's been kept alive by nerds like us that are all like "I need 40-million pickup wiring sounds in this guitar".
Click to expand...


That's my understanding too.
 
Re: Are All These Positions usable?

I have 3 hum les paul with triple shots and 4 push pull pots. Its basically a "normal" 2 hum lp with triple shots and phase and series/parallel switches. The 4th p/p pot adds the middle pickup with or without the other pickups. IIRC I get 260+ coil combos. Are they usable? Yes. Do over 200 of those sound the same as the others? Yes. So it basically has 10-15 different sounds that are different enough to be worth using. The others sound the same or the difference is so small it doesnt matter. The most convenient way would be to use split or parallel wiring on each hum and the phase switch between the pups. The other arent really necessary. For me at meast.
 
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