Are analog distortion pedals the best?

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Are analog distortion pedals the best?

Jonesey is usually very spot on with his tone advice. I trust him right up there with Lew and Christian and it's paid off in spades for me with killer scores on the Vox Valvetronix amps and the Chubtone pickups. Jonesey knows tone. :bowdown:

Thanks. And ironically, the Valvetronix is all about digital distortion, but still sounds good. So, I don't vote analog as a default. There's good and bad from both analog and digital, so there's no need to be a diehard supporter of either.

That said, if digital was better, Klon, Analogman, Pete Cornish, Bob Moog, Rupert Neve, Brent Averil, Zachary Vexx, and most other highend audio builders would be shaking in their boots hoping Korg, Roland, or Digitech doesn't make a better sounding pedal or mic pre.

I will admit that the gap has narrowed between the two in the past 10 years though.

 

[guitarded]

Re: Are analog distortion pedals the best?

I dunno... but there just seems to be something very wrong with a digital overdrive or distortion...... Modulation and Delays... no problem... but digital overdrive is like a Soy Bean Burger.

Thanks. And ironically, the Valvetronix is all about digital distortion, but still sounds good. So, I don't vote analog as a default. There's good and bad from both analog and digital, so there's no need to be a diehard supporter of either.

That said, if digital was better, Klon, Analogman, Pete Cornish, Bob Moog, Rupert Neve, Brent Averil, Zachary Vexx, and most other highend audio builders would be shaking in their boots hoping Korg, Roland, or Digitech doesn't make a better sounding pedal or mic pre.

I will admit that the gap has narrowed between the two in the past 10 years though.

 

[Gr8Scott]

Re: Are analog distortion pedals the best?

The valvetronix is the best (IMHO) attempt that anyone has made towards making digital distortion that sounds good. It's not an OD pedal, which is why I don't count it in this thread per se. I'm not saying that digital OD can't sound good, but I haven't seen a great example yet myself.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Are analog distortion pedals the best?

Hmmm... Behringer, Digikrap & the Metal Zone...

Nothing like setting the bar high.

the point is, there are a lot of analog pedals (the thread didn't specify price or company) that sound bad. ive even heard boutique OD pedals that I think sound bad.

Again, if I like the sound and it doesn't break on me, I use it, no matter what gets me there...I try to be open enough to judge with my ears. John McLaughlin used his Godin plugged into a laptop running Amplitube software into the PA and it sounded amazing.

Someone mentioned the Fender Super Sonic with a Metal Zone...a good player was using that exact combination in the store today and I thought it sounded absolutely horrible. Well, that amp sounds bad on its own, but with the MZ it took it to a new level of bad.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Are analog distortion pedals the best?

Really? Jimi Hendrix, Jeff Beck, Paul Kossoff, Ritchie Blackmore, David Gilmour, Peter Green, BB King, SRV, Angus Young, Brian May. There's some classic tones. No digital. All analog. Go ahead and point out how you justify your answer as "next to none."

Yeah, but what if you don't want to sound anything like them? I mean, I like a lot of those tones, but they already belong to the above. Its cool when some guitarists replicate classic tones, but that isn't why I buy effects.

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Are analog distortion pedals the best?

Really? Jimi Hendrix, Jeff Beck, Paul Kossoff, Ritchie Blackmore, David Gilmour, Peter Green, BB King, SRV, Angus Young, Brian May. There's some classic tones. No digital. All analog. Go ahead and point out how you justify your answer as "next to none."

I apologize. I forget that most guitar players refuse to consider anything that sounds less than 40 years old.

FWIW, Jeff Beck and David Gilmour have both wholeheartedly embraced digital technology. Unless that's some boutique analog Whammy pedal Gilmour sings the praises of.

 

[wahwah]

Re: Are analog distortion pedals the best?

I apologize. I forget that most guitar players refuse to consider anything that sounds less than 40 years old.

Does that mean that you can't support your original sweeping statement that "next to none" of the tones a player might like could be the result of an all analog path? Perhaps it's not so much that people "refuse to consider," but that they actually prefer those tones whilst still being open to everything they hear. That's how it is in my case, other people may answer differently.

FWIW, Jeff Beck and David Gilmour have both wholeheartedly embraced digital technology. Unless that's some boutique analog Whammy pedal Gilmour sings the praises of.

Is it accurate to describe Gilmour's use of one effect, albeit a pitch transposer and therefore nothing to do with the topic of this thread, which can't be produced by analog equipment as "wholeheartedly embracing" digital technology? Or is that an exaggeration? I'd be more inclined to describe a player who uses predominantly digital effects as "wholeheartedly embracing" the technology, rather than one who has invested tens of thousands of dollars into getting the best analog signal available (ala Pete Cornish) and uses one digital effect, once in a while. Similarly, I would be interested to hear the information you have which supports your statement that Jeff Beck "wholeheartedly embraces" digital technology.



Cheers...........................wahwah

 

[wahwah]

Re: Are analog distortion pedals the best?

Yeah, but what if you don't want to sound anything like them? I mean, I like a lot of those tones, but they already belong to the above. Its cool when some guitarists replicate classic tones, but that isn't why I buy effects.

You may have missed the point of the list, which was in answer to JB_From_Hell's assertion that "next to none" of any given player's favorite tones are the result of all analog signal paths. It wasn't intended to suggest that these are the only valid tones, nor the tones to which everyone should aspire. Using digital distortion will certainly lessen the chances of sounding like anyone on the list!



Cheers........................wahwah

 

[wickenspoet]

Re: Are analog distortion pedals the best?

I've really enjoyed reading everyone's input on this topic. Is there a way to find out if your pedal is analog or digital... probably just by opening it up, huh?

 

[JB_From_Hell]

Re: Are analog distortion pedals the best?

Does that mean that you can't support your original sweeping statement that "next to none" of the tones a player might like could be the result of an all analog path? Perhaps it's not so much that people "refuse to consider," but that they actually prefer those tones whilst still being open to everything they hear. That's how it is in my case, other people may answer differently.

Sorry my reply sounded snotty before. While I love everybody you listed, my approach is more modern, so I came off a bit strong.

Is it accurate to describe Gilmour's use of one effect, albeit a pitch transposer and therefore nothing to do with the topic of this thread, which can't be produced by analog equipment as "wholeheartedly embracing" digital technology? Or is that an exaggeration? I'd be more inclined to describe a player who uses predominantly digital effects as "wholeheartedly embracing" the technology, rather than one who has invested tens of thousands of dollars into getting the best analog signal available (ala Pete Cornish) and uses one digital effect, once in a while.

I'm looking at a shot of Gilmour's effects, I'm not sure of the exact time period, but amongst many analog pedals, I see a Boss Digital Metaliser, a TC Electronics digital delay, an MXR digital delay, a Lexicon PCM70, a Digitech Harmonizer, the aforementioned Whammy pedal, and, according to Pete Cornish, there's definitely some MIDI going on.

So, if he hasn't embraced digital technology, he's at least not afraid of it.

Similarly, I would be interested to hear the information you have which supports your statement that Jeff Beck "wholeheartedly embraces" digital technology.

My original statement was based on my memory of him mentioning how much he likes the Line 6 POD in GP awhile back, but I found this a minute ago:

What gear did you use on the new record?

I used a Line 6 POD on the demos. Some of that saw its way through to the final thing, because the sound of it was good and I thought, “I ain’t going to do that solo again!” But it was a mixture of a Marshall JCM2000 DSL head with one 4x12 cab and a Line 6 2x12 combo.

A modeling amp?

Yeah. I was surprised. People went, “Line 6? What’s that?” And I said, “Hey, you didn’t complain about the sounds.” I don’t remember the model, but it’s a fine amp. It enabled me to experiment with a lot of different textures without changing amps or plugging other things in. I also used the onboard effects.

 

[ParameterMan]

Re: Are analog distortion pedals the best?

I just want to point out that although digital devices contain transistors, they're not used in the same way as in an analog unit. First, your guitar signal has to be sampled, or sliced into a digital approximation of it's former self. Doing that introduces a slight delay which doesn't change the sound but can alter the feel, like the sound comes out of the amp a fraction too late. Then, the digital representation of the waveform is modified by complex algorithms that attempt the recreate the response of the original analog devices they're trying to emulate. Finally, it's assembled back together into an analog waveform, which can introduce farther degradation depending on the converter used.

Note that these drawbacks only really apply to distortion, amp modeling, or any other device that affects the entire signal, instead of being blended in like delays, reverbs, and modulations. What I like to see with digital distortion is when they just go ahead and attempt to create the best, most virtualized sound they can with the new medium instead of attempting to imitate something else.

 

[wahwah]

Re: Are analog distortion pedals the best?

Sorry my reply sounded snotty before. While I love everybody you listed, my approach is more modern, so I came off a bit strong.

All good and understood.

I'm looking at a shot of Gilmour's effects, I'm not sure of the exact time period, but amongst many analog pedals, I see a Boss Digital Metaliser, a TC Electronics digital delay, an MXR digital delay, a Lexicon PCM70, a Digitech Harmonizer, the aforementioned Whammy pedal, and, according to Pete Cornish, there's definitely some MIDI going on.

So, if he hasn't embraced digital technology, he's at least not afraid of it.

I think some of the recent confusion in this thread is because it was initially discussing the question of digital vs analog distortion, but it then evolved into a general analog vs digital signal path debate. There is no doubt that there are certain functions and effects that require digital technology, eg, long delay times, harmonizer and pitch transposer and specialty versions of it like the Whammy. As much as I love my DM-2, I also need to have an Ibanez DE-7, which is a digital pedal, for longer delay times. I chose it because it has a tape echo mode which gets me closer to the delay tone I prefer, but there isn't much option when it comes to longer delay times. I can only imagine that Gilmour is in the same position. The interesting one to note is the Boss Digital Metalizer, because that is obviously being used as a digital distortion. The question would then become, is that Gilmour's "go to" distortion, or is it something that he might use for one special effect, as he is known to do. Either way, in the end, it supports your case. The rest of his pedals, and I'm sure there were many, support the analog signal path case. Yes, he's certainly not afraid of the technology, and nobody should be, there's room and applications for both.

My original statement was based on my memory of him mentioning how much he likes the Line 6 POD in GP awhile back, but I found this a minute ago:

Again, that's good information to have. He's tracked his demos with a combination of Marshall and Line 6, played some crazy ass Beck stuff that he didn't want to re-record, and kept some of the Line 6 stuff. Again, he's not afraid of the technology, he's always been one to explore all the options. It's when we see him performing live with a stack of Line 6 that we'll know he has moved on to the wholehearted embracing of digital. For now, he's still predominantly an analog guy, but it supports your argument of being open to new things.

Personally, I have no problem with tracking stuff with the amp modellers in Logic 8, which to my ears are superior to the sound of Guitar Rig II and Amplitube. Only ReValver MkII has the edge on Logic's amp sim to me. But will I take it out live in place of my tube amps and analog OD/Dist pedals? No, because at best these technologies are trying to emulate what I already have in front of me, so it would be pointless. Would I replace my 70's MXR Phasers with a Line 6? Again, no way, because they don't sound as good as the originals. Would I use a Boss ME-50 instead of my Ulbrick and MI Audio OD/Dist pedals? Again, why would I bother when the analog pedals sound and feel so much better to me? But if I didn't have these analog pedals, I would certainly consider the digital versions as an option, because they have improved so much in recent years.



Cheers............................wahwah

 

[FAC]

Re: Are analog distortion pedals the best?

...I've heard some say that analog distortion pedals are better than digital ones?

Depends on what you mean by "are better", I think. Are you just talking about how a digital pedal might sound versus an analog one? If so, then perhaps a digital model of a classic amp distortion might be OK in the right setting, like when the cymbals are crashing in a live band situation.

What throws me with digital distortion is the feel (OK, and the sound...I personally don't like them very much...but in particular because of the feel...the way my fingers interact with the strings versus the sound that is produced). I had a pod for a while and thought it sounded OK (it was fun swapping the modeled amps with different modeled cabinets, etc.), but I could never get over the feel...it felt funny to me and did not inspire me to want to play more. I'm not slamming these devices, just stating that they did not feel right for me. If you like them, that's great. Maybe they are getting better?

Ultimately, I agree with ParameterMan's assessment regarding the A/D converters messing with the feel.

This is not to say I am a huge fan of analog distortion boxes, either...if possible, I prefer amp distortion, but I understand there are circumstances where it is not possible to naturally overdrive the amp (like with a Twin Reverb at bedroom volumes...or a Twin Reverb in a club, for that matter...), so all of these devices probably have some utility as long as you are happy with the way they sound.

 

[Dr.Mavashi]

Re: Are analog distortion pedals the best?

What throws me with digital distortion is the feel (OK, and the sound...I personally don't like them very much...but in particular because of the feel...the way my fingers interact with the strings versus the sound that is produced). I had a pod for a while and thought it sounded OK (it was fun swapping the modeled amps with different modeled cabinets, etc.), but I could never get over the feel...it felt funny to me and did not inspire me to want to play more. I'm not slamming these devices, just stating that they did not feel right for me.

Some people dont get till they A/B SS stuff vs. Real stuff

This is not to say I am a huge fan of analog distortion boxes, either...if possible, I prefer amp distortion, but I understand there are circumstances where it is not possible to naturally overdrive the amp

Well sometimes when people say that they dont realize that some amps have diode clipping before the tubes so in that sense its not that really "natural" but then again my Laney AOR had no diod clipping and do take it past 12 o'clock on the pre-amp and push it with Spina's TS9 and to me that's the sound that sounds best. But you will never find me with digitech boxes, yeah the have unlimeted gain but its just thin and cold.

 

[FAC]

Re: Are analog distortion pedals the best?

Well sometimes when people say that they dont realize that some amps have diode clipping before the tubes so in that sense its not that really "natural"

I had not thought of that...I suppose I meant tube amps without diode clipping. Funny you should mention that...I did used to have one of those Musicman amps from the early '80s that had a ss preamp and tube poweramp and at the time rarely got it cranked enough to hear any benefits from poweramp distortion. Sold it in 1984.

but then again my Laney AOR had no diod clipping and do take it past 12 o'clock on the pre-amp and push it with Spina's TS9 and to me that's the sound that sounds best.

Likely a subject for a new thread, but I am curious about getting some kind of pedal to push my amp a tad harder now and then. Currently, I have Victoria 20112 (Fender Tweed Deluxe style). Perhaps I'll start a new thread to get some suggestions, although I see tube screamers seem to be very popular for that "extra push over the cliff".

 

[James Rock]

Re: Are analog distortion pedals the best?

Analog distortion in most cases is used infront of amps where digital distortion is usually in modelling systems. How many digital OD/DIST stompboxs are there? Digitech is all I know of and the new BOSS pedals (Metal Core, Fuzz, and Dynamic Drive). BOSS Metalizer isnt counted because it has an analog signal path for distortion just is digital for the other effects.

 

[Dr.Mavashi]

Re: Are analog distortion pedals the best?

Currently, I have Victoria 20112 (Fender Tweed Deluxe style). Perhaps I'll start a new thread to get some suggestions, although I see tube screamers seem to be very popular for that "extra push over the cliff".

That's a Q for hot_grits, he is insane about those has a few of them I think.