Are Black Winters not supposed to be blistering high output?

[Rex_Rocker]

I just got my guitar back from the tech with the Black Winters installed.

The EQ and voicing of the pickup sounds OK. I just measured, and the bridge measures 16.7 KOhms, and the neck measures 12.9, so they seem OK that way. But I plug them in, and they're barely louder on the clean channel than the PAF Pro in the bridge of my Ibanez RG570. I was expecting monster pickups, but they're not. Is this how they're supposed to be or is something wrong?

Help!

 

[Ironbird666]

Re: Are Black Winters not supposed to be blistering high output?

I would describe mine as being a touch hotter than my DD loaded guitars. They are the hottest pups I own, with maybe the PATB-2 being the exception. Sounds like it's wired funky man, they should be pretty hot and thick.

How do they sound under gain? BW's are surprisingly clear when playing clean tones so it may throw you off a bit (bridge included).

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Are Black Winters not supposed to be blistering high output?

They sound great! Chunky and aggressive. I was just expecting them to be hotter, I guess. I recorded some DI's, and it definitely shows them being noticeably hotter than anything else I own (WLH, PAF Pro, '59B)... I guess I was just expected them to be like Blackout-hot. Guess not.

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Are Black Winters not supposed to be blistering high output?

Have you played around with pickup heights?

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Are Black Winters not supposed to be blistering high output?

Have you played around with pickup heights?

Yes. They are not very far from the strings. The bridge one is set to the same distance from the strings as the PAF Pro in the bridge of my other guitar.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Are Black Winters not supposed to be blistering high output?

My Black Winters, JBs and Distortions are all about the same relatively. My 500T feels a touch hotter than all of them, at least I found myself backing off the volume a half a notch or so to get the same drive when I swapped them out.

My Black Winters are very flat and even, lacking in any specific character (to me). I found myself having to make the most dramatic changes to the amp to get what I wanted out of them. That evenness could be part of why you perceive them as lower output. Really they aren't, it's just the EQ/tone is so different.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Are Black Winters not supposed to be blistering high output?

I guess I was either listening at volumes too low to really tell the difference or my ears are shot, but I do get hotter DI's for the BW vs. the PAF Pro. I guess it also threw me off that the PAF Pro is soooooo bright and attacky and it hits my amps/ears much harder. First the BW, then the PP:



I do like the EQ and general voicing of the BW bridge pickup, though. So I'll give it a few more days before I really make a judgement about them.

 

[Ironbird666]

Re: Are Black Winters not supposed to be blistering high output?

They aren't as bright and cutting as DD's so I can see why you would perceive them to be lower output. They push the front end of my amp pretty damn hard though, it almost feels like I have a boost on when I use them. There's more roar than slice to them in a way, but there's plenty enough cut to get the job done and keep clarity. I hope you dig them man!

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Are Black Winters not supposed to be blistering high output?

Maybe there's something funky with mine. TBH, I feel disappointed. They are hot, yes, but I feel that being just around 4-5 dB louder than an almost vintage-output pickup like the PAF Pro is kinda disappointing...

I'll give them a few more days. The wiring looks alright, though. It was done by a professional who I trust and has done quality work for me in the past, so I doubt that's the issue. Oh, well...

 

[Van Noord]

Re: Are Black Winters not supposed to be blistering high output?

For me, the BW almost seems like an alnico V in ceramic clothing. Uncharacteristically warm for a ceramic, with a softer, less urgent attack not typical of hot ceramics.
Comparing a brighter, lower output pup can really throw your interpretation of the BW off.

I think a big reason these pups are garnering such a following and getting lots of praise is because they are hot, modern ceramic humbuckers that don't conform to the limitations or stigma attached to other high output "metal" oriented pups.
These pups can convincingly pull off blues, hair metal, grunge, thrash, death and black metal. I've never encountered another pup that can do that.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Are Black Winters not supposed to be blistering high output?

Honestly, that's what disappoints me. I replaced my WLH-B/Phat Cat-N combo expecting to totally break away from the vintage vibe. I thought these would be more like Duncan Distortions on steroids. They seem like tamed Duncan Distortions, rather.

Like I said, I'll give them a few more days. If they don't win me over, I'll be on the hunt for a hot metal monster for the bridge position, at least.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Are Black Winters not supposed to be blistering high output?

If you wanted to overdo it, you could go SLUG bridge and El Diablo neck.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Are Black Winters not supposed to be blistering high output?

The BWs are EQd nothing like Distortions, so that's a thing. There are a lot more mids, which, depending on your hearing might account for a volume difference.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Are Black Winters not supposed to be blistering high output?

Well, I do like the way they're EQ'd and the voicing...

It's just that I was expecting monsters in a whole different league compared to my WLH.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Are Black Winters not supposed to be blistering high output?

So in what order you you guys rate these in terms of output: Distortion, JB, Custom, Black Winter, Nazgul?

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Are Black Winters not supposed to be blistering high output?

I think output is somewhat overrated anyway- but in my experience, a lot of stock humbuckers *seem* higher output than Duncans, due to their jagged-ness. Aren't PAF pros somewhat higher output than a lot of people expect anyway?

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Are Black Winters not supposed to be blistering high output?

I think output is somewhat overrated anyway- but in my experience, a lot of stock humbuckers *seem* higher output than Duncans, due to their jagged-ness. Aren't PAF pros somewhat higher output than a lot of people expect anyway?

It is very slightly hotter (especially in the attack) than my WLH-B and '59B. Not in a whole different league, though.

 

[Ironbird666]

Re: Are Black Winters not supposed to be blistering high output?

This whole conversation is weird to me. I have DD's, a Custom, a JB, BW's, EMG 81's, a PATB-2, and a Nazgul, and my BW loaded guitars are higher output than the majority of what I listed. They saturate harder through my amp (Peavey Invective) than the DD's I have and the Nazgul sounds cleaner too. The closest in output are the 81's and the PATB-2; that's not to say the DD's aren't close but there's a noticeable increase in saturation when I plug in the BW's. I owned a 59/C for a while and the BW was head and shoulders hotter than the 59/C, for comparison.


Out of the pickups you listed and my experience with them, I would place the BW hottest. The DD and Nazgul are pretty close but the Nazgul sounds more aggressive due to the midrange voicing. The Custom and JB are sort of a toss-up to me. But are hot in their own ways but I don't feel they are quite as hot as the previously mentioned. Well, the JB is pretty close so maybe if you slap a ceramic magnet in it but with the A5 mag, nah. You should be able to get the job done with any of those pups honestly. They all have plenty enough output; it's more of a matter of which voicing you prefer.

 

[allstarrme]

Re: Are Black Winters not supposed to be blistering high output?

I love the black winter neck, and it splits really well. The bridge I was a little underwhelmed with, but it works well for what I need from my les Paul. If I wanted more aggressive distortion flavor, I’d probably go for the nazgul. Maybe an invader with SD poles instead of cap heads.

 

[Mez Cal]

Re: Are Black Winters not supposed to be blistering high output?

This thread is amazing! Thanks to Rex for asking and all of y'all for chiming in....i started with JB's, then a Custom, tomorrow my first Nazgul.

From my limited expierience with aftermarket pickups I agree that you can get "there" with any of the aforementioned models, its just that some may get you "there" faster

I prefer the Custom to the JB, and although the JB is louder the custom seems hotter because it adds gain(distortion)to the amp. Its dirtier than the JB at same amp settings