Are harsh tones ever desirable?

[howeguy]

I have this Fender amp which sounds really beautiful on low volumes. When I raise it up for gigging, however, the tone becomes really harsh, like a "blizzard of nails".

That is, it only becomes like that when I use my bridge pickup on my tele. When I use my neck pickup, it's fine. That's how I've been gigging for the past couple of months, and I've never even tried using the bridge pickup live.

But should it stay this way? Will a tone that sounds kind of painful in the basement fit well in the mix? Would it be a good idea to use my harsh bridge pickup?

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: Are harsh tones ever desirable?

I hate this question.

Music is art. "harsh tone." Compared to what? In what context?

There are at least as many ways to answer your question as there are Fender amps... Or ways to write songs. Get a better amp or write songs that utilize that sound.

 

[MetalManiac]

Re: Are harsh tones ever desirable?

No. I mean, yeah, what Empty Pockets says is true, yet by the same token, if what you mean by 'harsh' is a icepick, or strident tone, and that is what is meant more than anything else I can think of when the word "harsh " is mentioned ... then, no, I cannot think of one single instance ever where anyone whats make that noise on purpose, unless maybe some recording engineer wants to process it or something..

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Are harsh tones ever desirable?

Tone is always subjective...

One mans warm is another mans muddy...one mans bright is another man s clear...it always just depends!

I always say there are no bad tones but sometimes there are tones that get used in the wrong place!

If you are unhappy with the sound of the amp change it...have the amp modded, different speakers, different pedals or maybe just a different amp..

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Are harsh tones ever desirable?

How extensively have you worked the tone controls on the amp and Tele?

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Are harsh tones ever desirable?

whats the amp? whats the speaker? fender make a range of amps that go from abominable to sublime.

 

[DankStar]

Re: Are harsh tones ever desirable?

Sometimes you just need to ask, "what kind of riffs would sound good with this harsh tone?" Next thing you know you have a riff that needs to be played only with that sound.

 

[howeguy]

Re: Are harsh tones ever desirable?

whats the amp? whats the speaker? fender make a range of amps that go from abominable to sublime.

I use a stock BJ III.

And when you guys say to use the harsh tone for songs that need that harsh tone...I don't think I can do that, lol. As you can see from my name, I play a lot of Yes tunes...

The saying "ditch the zero and get with the hero" certainly applies here. From now on, I'm gonna save up for a warm amp, preferably a twin reverb.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Are harsh tones ever desirable?

Bjs are fine (assuming your tubes are in good order) although the fender emi special design speaker is lame. A fat warm speaker like a cannabis rex is a night and day difference.


Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk

 

[jon the art guy]

Re: Are harsh tones ever desirable?

Bjs are fine (assuming your tubes are in good order) although the fender emi special design speaker is lame. A fat warm speaker like a cannabis rex is a night and day difference.


Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk

BJs are great if sourced from the right vendor. :wink:
but seriously, I don't have a Blues Junior but I want one enough to have it be one of those amps I never give up on, and I know a lot of people think the same way about it. It's probably that speaker of yours, and you should look into a Cannabis Rex or one of the darker, meatier sounding speakers.

Also EQ. You could knock the highs off when you're gigging.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Are harsh tones ever desirable?

You don't say what tele you have, but you might benefit from a different pickup in the bridge.

And it could be that swapping your V1 preamp tube for a slightly darker sounding tube (like a JJ) could be the ticket. Sometimes a microphonic tubes will sound harsh and lose detail. Even changing to a cord with just a little higher capacitance (like a Monster) could be just enough to roll off that excessive high-end.

Good luck!

Bill

 

[James Rock]

Re: Are harsh tones ever desirable?

Depends on what is harsh like said above. I dont see many 'harsh' clean tones, bright yes, in your face yes, painful when infront of an amp yes. The tones from this song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwFUVJYA9_I (theme from Misfits if anyone watchs that show) would be really painful infront of the amp they are bright as hell only way I can get this bright out of an AC30 is by putting the treble to stupid high settings but it works in the recording I think. Some amps clean get a little brighter when cranked as more harmonics are produced and you can compensate with lower treble settings or rolling back the tone (definately for a Fender tele). And as you have suspected band context makes a big difference. What pickups do you have in the tele?

 

[James Rock]

Re: Are harsh tones ever desirable?

Between opening this page (I open SD forum when I turn my PC on may not read everything for a few hours) and posting I see you have written alot more. I think the hot rod series amps do have a high mid spike thing going on that I think is cool but can be harsh with a tele and as I said before pickups make a difference. Something not so harsh but not dark is the Antiquities for Tele although they are vintage styled so for higher gain arent as tight or punchy.

 

[Low_fidelity2100]

Re: Are harsh tones ever desirable?

Personally, I use harsh ugly tones as an effect pretty regularly. Sometimes, a terrible, thin, ugly sound, is exactly what's needed in the context of a certain song. Some bandpassed nastiness sometimes just sits perfectly in a mix (live or on record), when the bass, drums, and vocals are supposed to be the center piece...That said, it's great as an "effect" sound...but as a primary sound, no, that's not good.

Blues Junior's aren't really incredibly bright, harsh sounding amps from my experience. If your's is incredibly harsh, when using the bridge pickup of your tele, at higher volumes, then either something is wrong with the guitar, or amp....or ya have the tone controls set poorly for your situation...or maybe you just don't like tele bridge pickup tones? Like others have said, the stock speaker isn't too great...but even with the stock speaker, the BJ shouldn't be incapable of good tones.

Question...when eq'ing the amp...do you set the eq to sound best on the neck, or bridge pickup?

If you're setting it up to sound great with the neck pickup...then you're gonna end up with an overly bright bridge sound, especially with a Tele or Strat. Just like if ya set it up to sound great with the Bridge pickup, you might end up with a muddy neck tone. Thats just sorta how it goes alot of the time. Tele's w/vintage style pickups are especially bad about this.
Having a relatively bright Bridge pickup, and a somewhat dark/muddy neck pickup (vintage styled tele neck pickup), it's really difficult to get a great balance between the two. You'll end up having to decide whether a great neck tone, or a great bridge tone is more important...cause its next to impossible to have both. Unless you swap the neck pickup for something brighter (Strat pickup, Twisted tele neck, Don Mare Stelly, etc...), or Swap the Bridge for something Darker (JD, Ant II, 1/4 pound, APSII tele, Even a lil bucker etc...).

Also, since no one else asked...are you plugging straight in, or running any effects in your signal path?

 

[Inder_Cine_Mann]

Re: Are harsh tones ever desirable?

If it's harsh to you, then it's harsh. No question. Gut feeling will tell you more than any other human being (aliens excluded, for obvious reasons)

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Are harsh tones ever desirable?

How extensively have you worked the tone controls on the amp and Tele?

+1

A telecaster really requires constant adjustment to volume and tone to sound great. Using the bridge with both full up sounds like crap in most situations.

 

[SongsForTheDeaf]

Re: Are harsh tones ever desirable?

Some harsh tones I actually really like but Icepicky tone that destroys your eardrums is never good

Personally I'd rather sound very muddy and not cut through than sound like a nail across a chalkboard

 

[Mr. B]

Re: Are harsh tones ever desirable?

I think over the last decade new amps have become much more sterile, metallic and cold sounding in general.

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Are harsh tones ever desirable?

I think over the last decade new amps have become much more sterile, metallic and cold sounding in general.

THIS. I started noticing this when small amps became popular for gigging. I think a lot of companies put super-efficient speakers in their small amps to make them loud enough to gig with. Too bad it happened at the expense of tone. Fender is also notorious for using tubes that are way too hard and cold in their amps.

 

[Securb]

Re: Are harsh tones ever desirable?

I love harsh tones -