Are S&D hotrod pickups EMI shielded?

Sacco

New member
I'm working on a custom guitar and get buzz even after shielding the cavities. I still get a quiet buzz until I touch the strings. (all is properly wired and grounded)

I'm suspecting the pickups need a grounded cover to act as EMI shied. I suspect the strings are acting as a shield when I touch them and would rather like if the pickups were shielded.

Any suggestions? comments about this?

TIA.

m.
 
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Re: Are S&D hotrod pickups EMI shielded?

all is properly wired and grounded
It's not. This is the classic symptom of a non-correctly grounded instrument.

Maybe the ground lead does not properly contact with the ground point, like the bridge, etc. Use your MM and look for continuity on all points until you find the culprit.

HTH,
 
Re: Are S&D hotrod pickups EMI shielded?

It's not. This is the classic symptom of a non-correctly grounded instrument.

Maybe the ground lead does not properly contact with the ground point, like the bridge, etc. Use your MM and look for continuity on all points until you find the culprit.

HTH,

Even if I get a little bit of buzzing in the background? (I'm taking, a little bit, yet my gretsch guitars and pretty much all the others with humbuckers have no buzzing)

I'm gonna try what you said anyway, but I'm pretty sure everything has been put together properly.

My question remains, are S&D pickups (no cover) EMI shielded?

EDIT: Neh! I know what goes on, and is not the pickups. :)
 
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Re: Are S&D hotrod pickups EMI shielded?

So what was the issue? Let us know- it might help someone else out.
 
Re: Are S&D hotrod pickups EMI shielded?

Poor shielding. I didn't fully understand the shielding concept when I did it months ago, so I didn't shield things properly. No grounding on them and poorly overall.

I could improve it a bit. Cannot shield the cables on the channel between the circuits and pickup (need to resolder a lot. If I approach my hand on the different sections from the back of the guitar the most noise occurs where the neck pickup area is located.

The pickup cavity is fully shielded and grounded, as well as the selector and the pots cavities (although the pot cavity is not 100% shielded on the front, my fault, soldered everything before shielding). Is the best I can do (without de soldering everything). I guess I would need to make one cable hook (for my pinky) with an alligator clip (to the bridge) so I'm noise free at all times. (currently, when I touch the bridge (or any ground) the noise goes fully away.

This is a Kit I built with S&D hotrods and montreaux electric parts (type 2), all the pots are correctly grounded and everything soldered neatly according to the instructions. Even grounded the braided ends.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/montreux_1389_lp_wiring_kit_2.htm

It's not so horrible, it's just more noisy, as in Single Coil noisy.

Here is the guitar, the pic from the cavity was before I grounded the pots, shielded the front partially and grounded the shielding:

2016-02-21 21.53.21 (Large).jpg2015-06-01 19.34.50 (Large).jpg2015-06-19 22.33.24 (Large).jpg2015-06-19 22.33.47 (Large).jpgpots.jpg
 
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Re: Are S&D hotrod pickups EMI shielded?

Wow, that is a cool, interesting guitar! A locking nut on a stoptail, too! I dig the dots around the edge as well.
 
Re: Are S&D hotrod pickups EMI shielded?

I'm a bit puzzled why Montreux would make a harness with four 300K pots? Talking about joining the "dark side"... ;)
 
Re: Are S&D hotrod pickups EMI shielded?

Wow, that is a cool, interesting guitar! A locking nut on a stoptail, too! I dig the dots around the edge as well.
Thanks buddy :) I had a lot of fun building this one.

My main goal, besides it looking good was to make it an intonation monster. This one uses 10s and use it mostly for stuff with bends, as in Gilmour extreme bends.

It sounds nice on pretty much every material, from Jazz to Blues / Rock. (I'm not a metal guy)

I've decided to lock the nut, put a roller bridge and use that special tailpiece with micro tuners. It turned out real good. :)
 
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Re: Are S&D hotrod pickups EMI shielded?

I'm a bit puzzled why Montreux would make a harness with four 300K pots? Talking about joining the "dark side"...

They discontinued that kit now. I wonder if the noise was the problem. Shame cause it wasn't cheap. The guitar sounds bright with the tone all the way up, no problem about that, certainly sounds beautiful.

Do you see anything wrong in my pic (wiring wise)? something obvious besides the pots not being grounded?
 
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Re: Are S&D hotrod pickups EMI shielded?

So after trying some of my other guitars I noticed all of them have more or less Buzz/Hum. I mean, it wasn't disturbing me so much until now.

I think the real problem I have is a lot of EMI signals in my room, mostly coming from my computer and one pre amp. I have a quite powerful computer and three display monitors and a myriad of cables under the table.

Here's a pic of my cave:

2016-12-08 02.30.36.jpg

So I ordered this:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/art_cleanbox_ii.htm?ref=search_rslt_ART+Clean+Box+ II_180285_3

After watching this video at 0:50


That will hopefully do the job. It did it quite effectively in the video.
 
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Re: Are S&D hotrod pickups EMI shielded?

Poor shielding. I didn't fully understand the shielding concept when I did it months ago, so I didn't shield things properly. No grounding on them and poorly overall.

Here is the guitar, the pic from the cavity was before I grounded the pots, shielded the front partially and grounded the shielding:

Hi Sacco
Congrats, good looking guitar. I’d like to post some tips, as a training exercise (per Mincer) when looking at circuits. I hope your control cavity probably does not look like the picture anymore, but the purpose of my post is an attempt to point out some problems with the photo of your control cavity as it was posted.

The first four problems are related to the grounding of the volume and tone pot internal resistors. If you look at the back of the pot, with the lugs up, #1 is on the left, #3 is on the right. For a modern Les Paul wiring, #1 lug should be soldered to the pot case, or somehow soldered to the ground circuit. Check out other wired Les Paul style control cavities on the web. NOTE: For 50’s vintage PAF wiring, the tone pot ground and cap is soldered differently to the volume lugs. But that’s a different conversation.

The next problems are associated with ground loops, study up on them. As the cavity is wired, when I last checked, you have a huge ground loop with 4 wires connecting all four pots. Only three can be linked. (And depending on how ground wires go to and back from the switch even less). You must maintain a linear ground path from the jack, through the pots, to the switch (and maybe back to a pot). No loops.

Also, if only one or more of the pots, or cable shielding contacts the cavity foil (the foil appears to be grounded to the jack) you will create other ground loops at each point where they contact. Ground loops act like antennas and pickup noise. The cavity foil may cause more harm than good at this point. BTW most/all vintage Les Paul’s don’t have shielded cavities.

The next problem area appears to be the string ground. The wire that comes from the string bridge should connect to the ground circuit. If the short black wire just above the Bridge volume pot is the bridge ground it looks like it could be connected to the Bridge volume + lug. If that is true, then it needs to be reconnected to the back of a pot. To test this, use your meter and connect it to the strings you should get continuity from the strings to the ground lug of the jack. (Which is the dangerous part of electric guitars on “live unfamiliar stages” where amps or mics might be connected to power outlets with powered/grounded/polarity differences, there’s ways to protect yourself, but get this noise free first).

It’s difficult to see how/where the pot ground is connected to the jack ground. I see the braided Selector Ground attached to the Jack but I can’t identify where the pots are connected to the Jack ground. The Selector Ground looks like braid, you need to be careful that it doesn’t touch something already grounded (like the foil, creating another ground loop and more noise).

If you’re cavity still looks like the photo, then I think the easy fix to all this is totally remove a ground wire from the back of one tone pot AND its respective volume pot. Connect the tone pot case to the jack ground. Disconnect the switch ground from the Jack and attach it to the volume pot case where you just disconnected from it tone pot case. You should now have a ground circuit that runs from the jack to each pot and up to the switch, its linear, there are no loops. Ground the #1 lug to its case for all four pots, and pay attention to the string ground, it needs to be soldered to the ground circuit.

In the end, there should be a linear ground circuit, the string ground should be attached anywhere to the circuit. Each pickup wire shield should be carefully soldered to the ground circuit (so you don’t accidently melt/penetrate the insulation and short to the pickup hot wire). And one side of each pot resister should be connected to ground.

BTW, you have a non-electrical problem with intonation because of how the locking nut is installed. The Floyd Rose style locking nuts are tricky to install. The neck needs to be routed/shaped so that there is an exact 90 degree angle between the base of the nut and the vertical end of the fingerboard. It looks like the bridge edge of the nut is tilting away from the fingerboard (IE the nut base is on the same angle as the headstock). Your string length is now not the same as the fret scale length especially at the first fret.

As a former Lurker
I hope my first tips to this forum help
 
Re: Are S&D hotrod pickups EMI shielded?

Hi.

Thank a lot for your reply. I will take all your suggestions and make the necessary changes. I checked the installation manual a gazillion times while installing this...but seems like since is my first build I might have to tweak it still.

The next problems are associated with ground loops, study up on them. As the cavity is wired, when I last checked, you have a huge ground loop with 4 wires connecting all four pots. Only three can be linked. (And depending on how ground wires go to and back from the switch even less). You must maintain a linear ground path from the jack, through the pots, to the switch (and maybe back to a pot). No loops.

I was wondering this. Thanks! that alone might do the trick. Yes they're all four connected to a common ground. Which one should I cut? the one connecting both vol pots?
 
Re: Are S&D hotrod pickups EMI shielded? (buzz/hum)

Re: Are S&D hotrod pickups EMI shielded? (buzz/hum)

Read my post again, it suggests between a volume and tone pot. I was thinking the bridge pots. Connect tone pot case to ground. If you only have one ground connection to the switch then disconnect switch ground from the jack and connect it to the now vacant spot on volume pot. That should make a linear circuit, from jack to switch. BUT, you might have a duplicate ground path to the switch with the volume output shields. This is a phone reply, I can't see your cavity right now.

You may need to break the ground between the volume pots depending on how the volume output shield wires are connected to the switch and pots. It could get tricky here. You don't want duplicate paths. You might end up removing the separate switch ground because the volume output shields are doing that job between the switch and ground.

Don't depend on me to tell you exactly what to do. Understand the concepts. One ground path no double routes.

Here's a possible scenario
Jack ground to bridge tone pot to neck tone pot to neck volume pot to switch ground switch back to volume pot. No ground connection between the bridge volume and tone pot cases. One long path connecting thru all components once. Then pickup shield wire and string grounds connect up somewhere on the path.

There are other scenarios depending on cabling to and from switch.

Please confirm where string ground is connected.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Re: Are S&D hotrod pickups EMI shielded?

Completely unrelated and off topic, and I really don't mean to be annoying or snarky

But it's SD, not S&D... xD

Seymour Duncan
not
Seymour & Duncan
 
Re: Are S&D hotrod pickups EMI shielded?

It does sound a little like an accounting firm.
 
Re: Are S&D hotrod pickups EMI shielded?

So...

I've got a Line6 Relay G10 and the noise is entirely gone.

Seems like the absence of a physical connection between the Guitar and the rest of the gear makes for a nifty trick that kills any buzz as minimal as it was.

Nice!!!!
 
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