Are Warmoth Les Pauls back?

Re: Are Warmoth Les Pauls back?

Gibsons neck joint construction methods are inconsistent. I have no clue why they have never addressed this. This is a key factor as to why their sound quality is wildly inconsistent. Sorry, couldn't resist butting in. My $.02.
 
Re: Are Warmoth Les Pauls back?

You ever see a scarf joint on a tilted headstock? Relatively minimum surface area for glue to work. I've not seen any real neck failures at the neck joint, but at the headstock where a volute could have fixed that problem nearly entirely.

Either way, a good guitar is a good guitar.

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Re: Are Warmoth Les Pauls back?

trevorus said:
You ever see a scarf joint on a tilted headstock? Relatively minimum surface area for glue to work. I've not seen any real neck failures at the neck joint, but at the headstock where a volute could have fixed that problem nearly entirely.

Either way, a good guitar is a good guitar.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
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What a bunch of nonsense. Ibanez' been doing that for years too as well as epiphone and other major brands. The headstock is glued on and sandwiched between the neck shaft and fret board. That's like a glueing surface of 10 centimeters lonh at least.
 
Re: Are Warmoth Les Pauls back?

AlexR said:
I'm not getting this....how do you accept all the other glued joints in your guitars then....I mean if you don,t trust a glued join then anything other than a 1 piece body or neck is structurally unsound in your book.


The second comment was just based on the fact that you can actually still use all the older materials if you are a small/hobby builder, but not if you're a big company.
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Aha but there you are wrong. I have no issue with a glued joint. I have issues with gibsons joint.

And what's that older material you talk about? I use brand new cts pots, gotoh hardware etc etc. I choose to use shellac in stead of thick, gooped up lacquers.
 
Re: Are Warmoth Les Pauls back?

I'm very interested to hear how you think a tenon glued on 3 faces, and sometimes with a keyhole shape, would be somehow so bad that a bolt on neck with about 20% of the same surface area under 'tension' would be a 'better' interface.
 
Re: Are Warmoth Les Pauls back?

AlexR said:
I'm very interested to hear how you think a tenon glued on 3 faces, and sometimes with a keyhole shape, would be somehow so bad that a bolt on neck with about 20% of the same surface area under 'tension' would be a 'better' interface.
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simple. Gibson's joint relies on glue to hold. a good (!) bolt on joint relies on physical tension to hold. Note that I'm saying GIBSON's joint. not 'a glued tenon'. I've seen enough gibsons to see that their neck joints are just plain sloppy. You often don't see it because the fretboard covers up so much of the joint. But I've seen too many to lose faith in Gibson. Huge gaps in the pocket, even with a long tenon. Necks that are being torn out of the body under string tension because the glue started to soften under the warm stage lights. Etcetera etcetera.
 
Re: Are Warmoth Les Pauls back?

Its funny, I'm a member of a rather large LP forum too......and I've never come across this 'glue melting under stage lights bit'........sounds wild - given you need to get hide glue to 70deg to make it workable, and pro luthiers use pressurized stem to heat debond necks.
 
Re: Are Warmoth Les Pauls back?

As usual, another interesting thread devolves into gibson bashing. Well played gentlemen.
 
Re: Are Warmoth Les Pauls back?

well if one were to order 'LP' style parts and wanted to implement a glue joint rather than bolt on the neck, said person could just order the parts without holes drilled into them already and just glue the neck to the body right? (I expect that the customer measures the neck angle and uses a shim as needed)
 
Re: Are Warmoth Les Pauls back?

orpheo said:
simple. Gibson's joint relies on glue to hold. a good (!) bolt on joint relies on physical tension to hold. Note that I'm saying GIBSON's joint. not 'a glued tenon'. I've seen enough gibsons to see that their neck joints are just plain sloppy. You often don't see it because the fretboard covers up so much of the joint. But I've seen too many to lose faith in Gibson. Huge gaps in the pocket, even with a long tenon. Necks that are being torn out of the body under string tension because the glue started to soften under the warm stage lights. Etcetera etcetera.
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Any pics/evidence to back up your statements? Why should we believe your claims if they are based only on your words?

I have never heard of a Les Paul or even an SG neck being torn straight out of the body. Even if it did, it was most likely the wood around the joint that failed, rather than the glued joint itself. In fact, I've found the screw holes on a bolt-on neck, even when constructed properly, are more likely to give way and strip under tension than Gibson and their glued neck-body joints. By the way, I like bolt-on necks, and I think they are a solid construction method - so I am not bashing bolt-ons.
 
Re: Are Warmoth Les Pauls back?

Myaccount876 said:
Any pics/evidence to back up your statements? Why should we believe your claims if they are based only on your words?

I have never heard of a Les Paul or even an SG neck being torn straight out of the body. Even if it did, it was most likely the wood around the joint that failed, rather than the glued joint itself. .
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^ exactly - the glued join is always stronger than the surrounding wood - that has been proved time and time again irrespective of maker. The only failures I've seen are poorly repaired headstock breaks - but you can clearly see why those failed.
 
Re: Are Warmoth Les Pauls back?

Works for me. Screw trademarks on shapes of parts of things (as opposed to whole things).
 
Re: Are Warmoth Les Pauls back?

orpheo said:
Necks that are being torn out of the body under string tension because the glue started to soften under the warm stage lights. Etcetera etcetera.
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Bwahahahahaha!! What a load of crap.
 
Re: Are Warmoth Les Pauls back?

Oh seeing you guys all being worked up over my experiences is priceless. I know what I saw. Working in a repairshop really is helpful to see the peculiarities of luthery. The neck popping out was during the nokia 3310 era. Cameras on cellphones were utopic.

Sure. Dismiss it all because you don't want it to be a realistic scenario. But to follow dogmas blindly is just as foolish as not thinking with a critical mind.
 
Re: Are Warmoth Les Pauls back?

orpheo said:
Oh seeing you guys all being worked up over my experiences is priceless. I know what I saw. Working in a repairshop really is helpful to see the peculiarities of luthery. The neck popping out was during the nokia 3310 era. Cameras on cellphones were utopic.

Sure. Dismiss it all because you don't want it to be a realistic scenario. But to follow dogmas blindly is just as foolish as not thinking with a critical mind.
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Let's try this one more time:

Any pics/evidence to back up your statements? Why should we believe your claims if they are based only on your words?

I have never heard of a Les Paul or even an SG neck being torn straight out of the body. Even if it did, it was most likely the wood around the joint that failed, rather than the glued joint itself. In fact, I've found the screw holes on a bolt-on neck, even when constructed properly, are more likely to give way and strip under tension than Gibson and their glued neck-body joints. By the way, I like bolt-on necks, and I think they are a solid construction method - so I am not bashing bolt-ons.
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Re: Are Warmoth Les Pauls back?

orpheo said:
Oh seeing you guys all being worked up over my experiences is priceless. I know what I saw. Working in a repairshop really is helpful to see the peculiarities of luthery. The neck popping out was during the nokia 3310 era. Cameras on cellphones were utopic.

Sure. Dismiss it all because you don't want it to be a realistic scenario. But to follow dogmas blindly is just as foolish as not thinking with a critical mind.
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And equally - having something happen once, or even twice during the course of professional repairs for many years is a very low statistical liklihood - NO company will produce 100% success....plus if was an older guitar, who knows what happened leading up to that time. You've essentially confirmed my suspicion that your dislike is irrational.
 
Re: Are Warmoth Les Pauls back?

As long as the Gibson monkeys can't consistently put their guitars together for less than $2k and better than any idiot with a screwdriver and a neck plate - no, Warmoth will not be making Les Paul bodies.

And there is no need to "bash" Gibson. the bottom line is the quality for the price is simply very poor in far too many instances, and they do a lot of dumb $h!t that their customers hate. They pay more for lawyers than luthiers. STupid is as stupid does.

Pointing out that retards are retarded is not bashing.
 
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Re: Are Warmoth Les Pauls back?

AlexR said:
You do realise a lot of current Gibby's are back to long Tenon, or that locking one???

Oh, for the old days, when storing dangerously inflammable inlays, lumber species soon to be almost eradicated, and environmentally hazardous paint was still the go!!
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orpheo said:
Yes I know that. Yet I can't help it but not like the joint. It's just not a structurally sound joint.

And I don't understand your last remark. How does that work with either gibson or warmoth?
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Both of you guys :lmao:

Like EITHER of you have seen a Gibson break at the neck.Body joint. Or could tell by sound if it was long/short tenon.

I'm all for bashing Gibson on the dumb stuff they do - but don't be an idiot yourself if you go there.
 
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