Attenuators & power soaks.. gain without the pain
- Thread starter Gold star
- Start date
NegativeEase
New member
Re: Attenuators & power soaks.. gain without the pain
You have to refer to specific attenuator styles/types to answer those question.... but a traditional power brake like a Marshall power brake from the 80s makes the amp sound incredible and yes wears on the amp faster....
Many dummy load system now are more forgiving.
You have to refer to specific attenuator styles/types to answer those question.... but a traditional power brake like a Marshall power brake from the 80s makes the amp sound incredible and yes wears on the amp faster....
Many dummy load system now are more forgiving.
Re: Attenuators & power soaks.. gain without the pain
you can wind up the volume and/ or pre amp stage and then that voltage going into the tubes is dissipated into this unit..bit like a pressure relief valve in plumbing system..thats why I wondered whether it can be the same as cranking up the volume without the power brake...
you can wind up the volume and/ or pre amp stage and then that voltage going into the tubes is dissipated into this unit..bit like a pressure relief valve in plumbing system..thats why I wondered whether it can be the same as cranking up the volume without the power brake...
Re: Attenuators & power soaks.. gain without the pain
if you have a good attenuator then there is no more wear and tear on the amp than having the volume set the same without the attenuator. running a 50w marshall on 10 all the time is going to cook tubes faster than running it on 3 all the time but if you love the sound, then do it!
if you have a good attenuator then there is no more wear and tear on the amp than having the volume set the same without the attenuator. running a 50w marshall on 10 all the time is going to cook tubes faster than running it on 3 all the time but if you love the sound, then do it!
Coma
Well-known member
Re: Attenuators & power soaks.. gain without the pain
There are better ones and worse ones. I had a really cheap one and couldn't return it fast enough. Major tone suck. It did do what it was supposed to do though - push the amp across the initial "thin and fizzy" stages of the volume range without blowing out your eardrums and your windows respectively.
Have owned two amps with built-in ones. One was decidedly better than the other (both the attenuator and the rest of the amp circuit).
Never owned an expensive one, but I've heard they're nice. Passive and active attenuators will supposedly also differ quite a bit in how well they work. Some also have extra controls to counter previously mentioned tone suck.
But all attenuators will generate heat. With an attenuator built into the amp that may be a problem if you really crank the master volume (according to the manufacturer, anyway). I would imagine this isn't really an issue with an external one, provided you don't do something stupid like cover it with a blanket or something flammable.
There are better ones and worse ones. I had a really cheap one and couldn't return it fast enough. Major tone suck. It did do what it was supposed to do though - push the amp across the initial "thin and fizzy" stages of the volume range without blowing out your eardrums and your windows respectively.
Have owned two amps with built-in ones. One was decidedly better than the other (both the attenuator and the rest of the amp circuit).
Never owned an expensive one, but I've heard they're nice. Passive and active attenuators will supposedly also differ quite a bit in how well they work. Some also have extra controls to counter previously mentioned tone suck.
But all attenuators will generate heat. With an attenuator built into the amp that may be a problem if you really crank the master volume (according to the manufacturer, anyway). I would imagine this isn't really an issue with an external one, provided you don't do something stupid like cover it with a blanket or something flammable.
Re: Attenuators & power soaks.. gain without the pain
Generally speaking, there are two kinds of attenuators: resistive and reactive.
Resistive attenuators are usually less expensive because they're much cheaper to make, but the more you attenuate the more excessively dull the sound can get because the resistive load never or at least only slightly changes.
Reactive attenuators also vary in quality, but basically, they "react" to what the speaker would do under those loads. Speakers vary their resistive load as they run; so a reactive attenuator does the same thing, simulating what a real speaker would do. This results in a much more natural sound compared to when it's louder, but as you attenuate, the sound does get slightly dull, albeit nowhere near as bad as the resistive ones. But, at most levels of attenuation, the tone you get is still more than usable and in a blind test (volume compensated), I highly doubt you would be able to tell which one was the attenuated amp and which one was not, although you would hear a difference.
To actually answer your question, yes the transformer does run hotter because the actual amp is running hotter, an attenuator essentially just soaks up most of the signal before it goes to the speaker. If you run it at close to max output, you will burn out the tubes faster, but that would be case even if you weren't running the attenuator and just had the amp close to max.
Pete Thorn did an excellent video on the Tone King Ironman II Reactive Attenuator if you want more information. There's also Andy with Reverb who did another excellent video.
TL;DR
Resistive attenuators will do the job, but "suck" tone pretty badly when using a lot. Reactive attenuators mostly preserve your tone as you attenuate, and the "tone suck" is usually not enough to worry about.
Generally speaking, there are two kinds of attenuators: resistive and reactive.
Resistive attenuators are usually less expensive because they're much cheaper to make, but the more you attenuate the more excessively dull the sound can get because the resistive load never or at least only slightly changes.
Reactive attenuators also vary in quality, but basically, they "react" to what the speaker would do under those loads. Speakers vary their resistive load as they run; so a reactive attenuator does the same thing, simulating what a real speaker would do. This results in a much more natural sound compared to when it's louder, but as you attenuate, the sound does get slightly dull, albeit nowhere near as bad as the resistive ones. But, at most levels of attenuation, the tone you get is still more than usable and in a blind test (volume compensated), I highly doubt you would be able to tell which one was the attenuated amp and which one was not, although you would hear a difference.
To actually answer your question, yes the transformer does run hotter because the actual amp is running hotter, an attenuator essentially just soaks up most of the signal before it goes to the speaker. If you run it at close to max output, you will burn out the tubes faster, but that would be case even if you weren't running the attenuator and just had the amp close to max.
Pete Thorn did an excellent video on the Tone King Ironman II Reactive Attenuator if you want more information. There's also Andy with Reverb who did another excellent video.
TL;DR
Resistive attenuators will do the job, but "suck" tone pretty badly when using a lot. Reactive attenuators mostly preserve your tone as you attenuate, and the "tone suck" is usually not enough to worry about.
Last edited:
Re: Attenuators & power soaks.. gain without the pain
You know, I've never heard an attenuator sound as good as a small low wattage amp.
You know, I've never heard an attenuator sound as good as a small low wattage amp.
Coma
Well-known member
Re: Attenuators & power soaks.. gain without the pain
How small are we talking? Even at 10 watts a tube amp designed for distortion will most likely be too loud to play if you have neighbours. Unless you just love that fizzy tone you get when it's set too low.
Marshall have a few 1 and 5 watters, but most lunchboxes seem to land around 15.
How small are we talking? Even at 10 watts a tube amp designed for distortion will most likely be too loud to play if you have neighbours. Unless you just love that fizzy tone you get when it's set too low.
Marshall have a few 1 and 5 watters, but most lunchboxes seem to land around 15.
Re: Attenuators & power soaks.. gain without the pain
i have two amps i use 90% of the time. a 10w amp with 97db speaker and i can turn it up and get the goods even in a small club and a 20w amp with 100db speaker is pretty clean at the same volume in the room. ive used an attenuator (weber mass) to dial the 20w down a bit and it works great. i find you can use a good attenuator to knock of maybe 15-20% of the volume without causing much tone suck but much more than that and id much rather have a smaller amp. i also use the same weber mass to dial a dual showman reverb down a bit and the results are the same, 15% and the tone is still great, 50% and the tone isnt a great and ill bring a different amp.
i have two amps i use 90% of the time. a 10w amp with 97db speaker and i can turn it up and get the goods even in a small club and a 20w amp with 100db speaker is pretty clean at the same volume in the room. ive used an attenuator (weber mass) to dial the 20w down a bit and it works great. i find you can use a good attenuator to knock of maybe 15-20% of the volume without causing much tone suck but much more than that and id much rather have a smaller amp. i also use the same weber mass to dial a dual showman reverb down a bit and the results are the same, 15% and the tone is still great, 50% and the tone isnt a great and ill bring a different amp.
LLL
New member
Re: Attenuators & power soaks.. gain without the pain
Power attenuators are only good at very low attenuation settings. Any more attenuation, the tone becomes compressed crap.
Sadly, for most, even low attenuation is too loud. Also, power attenuators are not an advanced rig concept; they're actually basic.
The best solution, by far, for pure cranked amp tone, at any volume, without:
- attenuator mush
- thin cranked preamp / low master volume setting tone
- distortion box into quiet amp for more gain buzzy bee tone
etc...
is slaving. This is an advanced rig concept.
That means loading down your amp with a dummy load, tapping the signal off the amp... and from there, re-amping it.
Power attenuators are only good at very low attenuation settings. Any more attenuation, the tone becomes compressed crap.
Sadly, for most, even low attenuation is too loud. Also, power attenuators are not an advanced rig concept; they're actually basic.
The best solution, by far, for pure cranked amp tone, at any volume, without:
- attenuator mush
- thin cranked preamp / low master volume setting tone
- distortion box into quiet amp for more gain buzzy bee tone
etc...
is slaving. This is an advanced rig concept.
That means loading down your amp with a dummy load, tapping the signal off the amp... and from there, re-amping it.
NegativeEase
New member
Re: Attenuators & power soaks.. gain without the pain
The best overdrive tone I've ever heard was a 80s custom power-braked early 70s JMP in a 1992 studio session -but I have no way (he passed away) and see how he did it.
But it was unreal.
I imagine there are many modern way to approach this now -but without the old way -I can't A/B
sucks.
The best overdrive tone I've ever heard was a 80s custom power-braked early 70s JMP in a 1992 studio session -but I have no way (he passed away) and see how he did it.
But it was unreal.
I imagine there are many modern way to approach this now -but without the old way -I can't A/B
sucks.
Cynical
Active member
Re: Attenuators & power soaks.. gain without the pain
Freyette Power Station is the load + reamp in one convenient box.
Re: Attenuators & power soaks.. gain without the pain
i dont even like bringing the attenuator
ive pared down my rig so its a one trip carry 95% of the time. if i have to haul pa or something like that and am already going to make ten trips, whats one more, but that doesnt happen very often.
i dont even like bringing the attenuator
ive pared down my rig so its a one trip carry 95% of the time. if i have to haul pa or something like that and am already going to make ten trips, whats one more, but that doesnt happen very often.
Similar threads
