Babicz FCH TOM Bridge and ES-335

dvadneau

dvadneau

New member
Hi guys,

I acquired a FCH TOM bridge and tailpiece (used for $60, yay!). I'll be installing it on my ES-335 Studio but have a concern.

I recently had the guitar setup (fret level, etc.). The action is good, although the strings do seem to hit the frets near the neck pickup a little more readily than my other guitars. Not a big deal when playing through my headphones or amp at practice volumes. The neck is dead straight. I mean there is no string relief - you could use it as a ruler. It was like a sheet of ice when I got it back.

What does that have to do with the bridge?

Well, the height of the strings, from the body to the bottom of the strings is approximately 2.1 cm. To setup the FCH bridge to this height I need to include all of the spacers they provide (save the thick non-arched one), AND raise the saddles to their highest positions. This seems very wrong. I want to be able to adjust the action (one of the big benefits, imo, of this bridge), but wouldn't be able to in this case. Well, not higher for sure.

My thought is to provide some relief and let the neck curve up a little. This should let me lower the bridge a little while still leaving the action at a good height.

I assume with the neck angle of the 335 I'll always need the spacers under the bridge.

Does this sound correct?

Anyone else use a FCH bridge with their LPs or other angled-neck guitars?
 
Re: Babicz FCH TOM Bridge and ES-335

No one has had this type of issue with an FCH bridge?

Anyone willing to comment on having slight relief in the neck, as opposed to a perfectly flat one, to help lower the bridge? Does this make sense?
 
Re: Babicz FCH TOM Bridge and ES-335

You could create a slight amount of space to lower it with neck relief. It wouldn't be enough to help with your problem though i don't think. Also you want your strings to run parallel to the neck and it would put your strings on an angle.
 
Re: Babicz FCH TOM Bridge and ES-335

Ok, well, I'll give it a try and see what I can do. I'll report back with my findings.

Thanks.
 
Re: Babicz FCH TOM Bridge and ES-335

I got the bridge installed and put a heavier gauge string on, initially thinking this might help counter the action needing to be lower, plus I wanted to try this on this guitar - it's what I use on my LP (11-52, well, 11-50 from a different brand).

There is now some neck relief, not a lot, but enough to keep (all but one of) the saddles from being maxed out. The action's a little high, yet I'm noticing a couple of spots that fizzle out. I guess the fret level wasn't perfect.

tonechaser said:
Also you want your strings to run parallel to the neck and it would put your strings on an angle.
Click to expand...

That doesn't sound right. If the strings were parallel they'd buzz like crazy when you hit them with any real force, or the nut would have to be high enough to counter that, which would put the lower notes out of tune when fretted.

Even when holding the string on each end of the fretboard, shouldn't there be a higher gap somewhere in the middle?

I need to go read up on basic setup principles ...
 
Re: Babicz FCH TOM Bridge and ES-335

I'm not quite sure what an FCH bridge is, but based on your symptoms of having problems with the lower frets....I'd say either the bridge isn't high enough, the radius of the saddles is off, your guitar has a steeper neck angle than what that bridge is suited, or any combination of the former.
 
Re: Babicz FCH TOM Bridge and ES-335

First off you said your neck was dead straight. In that case your strings should ideally run perfectly parallel to your fret board. With a slight relief your right strings couldn't be perfectly parallel since the necks not but the point I'm making is that, nevermind i probably wont make any sense or know what I'm talking about set it up however you want.
 
Re: Babicz FCH TOM Bridge and ES-335

For a really good setup thats exactly right you you personally, forget measurements and use your ears and fingers. Factory measurements are a ball park figure so that guitars shipping to shops are playable, but you can do much more to fine tune your action to be really responsive to be a perfect fit for you and get the most out of yoru instrument.

Your bridge height govens the action of the frets from the body join up (the truss rod cannot affect these ones), so adjust the bridge until you are happy that the strings do not buzz for those higher frets. I personally dont mind some buzz if i pick hard, because i usually play really lightly and use heavy strings (heavy strings buzz less and flap around less under the pick), so exactly how high you want the action is up to you and your playing style. BIg bending players often need to take that into account too when setting the bridge height, but 335s are not as curved as fenders so its not a big deal.

After the height for the upper frets are done, adjust the neck relief so that there is no buzz down the neck as far as the first fret. Dead straight is no good...you need a little relief to allow the strings room to vibrate. Forget measurements...juts keep playing it, retuning it and doing slight 1/4 turn adustments until you are happy. It wont need a lot. Juts bear in mind that often the neck wood needs time to settle, so overnight you may need to reverse by a 1/4 turn the next day.

The final adjustment is the nut...which is the most difficult and time consuming to fine tune because once its too low, you need to replace it. It just needs to be more or less the same height as the difference between frets one and two, but with a little margin extra. Buy a new nut the same as the old one and just rub its underside on some 150 sandpaper thats sitting on a flat surface until it right. You will have to take it out and put in in a couple of times. If you go too far then juts shape the old nut so its the same height as the last working size.
 
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Re: Babicz FCH TOM Bridge and ES-335

@gibson175 - Dude, that's awesome! Thank you for that. It's funny, but I've always started with the nut. I sand the nut until there's room for a paper under the 1st fret while holding down on the 3rd. After that it was more of a guessing game. I think I was doing something like that, but without really thinking about what the truss rod can and can't do and how to get rid of some of the buzz.

@Mr 9finger - Adjusting the radius helped as well, thank you.

Mr 9finger said:
I'm not quite sure what an FCH bridge is...
Click to expand...

Sorry, I should have opened with a link to the bridge. I've just researched it a lot lately and jumped to the conclusion everyone else knew what it was :)

FCH = Full Contact Hardware

It's by Jeff Babicz of Babicz guitars: http://www.fullcontacthardware.com/tom

It's actually an awesome concept. Completely adjustable TOM bridge that makes contact directly from the base of the bridge to your guitar (well, through plates of the same material as the rest of the bridge). It's all aluminum, except for the adjustment screws and posts. A kit includes what you need for an Epi or Gibson, although the tailpiece on my '91 335 required that I use the original posts as they were a different threading.

It's all really light. I was expecting the bridge to be heavy, from seeing it in the photos. I doubt my kitchen scale is very accurate, but I weighed the original tailpiece of my 335 and the FCH tailpiece was half the weight. The bridge itself was not much heavier - less than an ounce heavier than the tailpiece, roughly the same as the original bridge.

Some photos:
1.jpg


2.jpg


Very adjustable. It's nice being able to adjust radius without a file. There are 2 coarse intonation screws that make contact with the posts. Then there are the 6 screws for fine adjustment, same as a standard TOM. It has lock screws similar to a Floyd, but without the pull that makes Floyds annoying to intonate.
3.jpg


Neck angle and bridge "height".
4.jpg


You can see the shims under the bridge.
5.jpg


On guitars with less angle you only need the thicker shim (curved for carved tops and it also comes with a straight one for flat tops).
 
How much change in tone have you noticed?

I only have experience with their bass bridge and while I'm happy with the tone it gave me in the P-bass, the J-bass sounds almost identical, and that ain't right.

Granted, that means I'm whining about a bass that sounds full, deep, and punchy, but it's a Jazz bass, dammit.
 
Re: Babicz FCH TOM Bridge and ES-335

Well, I'm going to put a set of 10-46 strings back on. Right now it's got 11-52 (and a different brand, no less), so it's hard for me to determine where the difference is really coming from.

I'll report back when I've done that.
 
Re: Babicz FCH TOM Bridge and ES-335

I think that bridge is a very cool idea that makes a lot of sense, but I doubt I ever try it. Having the dudes name all over it in big white letters isn't a turn on for me.
 
Re: Babicz FCH TOM Bridge and ES-335

Mr 9finger said:
I think that bridge is a very cool idea that makes a lot of sense, but I doubt I ever try it. Having the dudes name all over it in big white letters isn't a turn on for me.
Click to expand...

This, but also, while I'm into cool hardware innovations, I prefer the stuff like Faber that's somewhat understated as opposed to something huge like that on a classic design like a 335. It looks like a piece of a robotic hand or something.

On a V or Explorer, though...hmmm...do they only come in black? Have you had any problems with the Nashville inserts trying to pull out as you tighten down on the top? Sometimes they're not in there that well.
 
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Re: Babicz FCH TOM Bridge and ES-335

They've got all the standard finishes. Gold, Chrome, and I think Nickel as well. What's this Faber bridge you speak of? I'm looking to swap all the stuff on one of my LP's and I'm always open to options.
 
Re: Babicz FCH TOM Bridge and ES-335

It's not as noticeable on the chrome finish... the gold I don't think is bad either.
 
Re: Babicz FCH TOM Bridge and ES-335

Mr 9finger said:
I think that bridge is a very cool idea that makes a lot of sense, but I doubt I ever try it. Having the dudes name all over it in big white letters isn't a turn on for me.
Click to expand...

I didn't like that idea either. On the bridge I don't mind, it's not in direct view all the time. The tailpiece is unfortunate. It's amazingly light, but if they would have just engraved it it would have looked that much better.

That said, l looked over at my LP with it's Bigsby ... :1:

formula73 said:
This, but also, while I'm into cool hardware innovations, I prefer the stuff like Faber that's somewhat understated as opposed to something huge like that on a classic design like a 335. It looks like a piece of a robotic hand or something.

On a V or Explorer, though...hmmm...do they only come in black? Have you had any problems with the Nashville inserts trying to pull out as you tighten down on the top? Sometimes they're not in there that well.
Click to expand...

I didn't notice the inserts move at all. I didn't tighten the bridge down too hard. I want it to make contact, but not leave an impression :) I'll keep an eye on it though if I need to make adjustments.

I actually like the "robot hand" look. And even if I eventually don't go with the bridge for whatever reason I know I'll want a black bridge and tailpiece now. I just really like that better than the chrome for the colour scheme on that guitar. Maybe if I'd gone with chrome covers and top hats with chrome inserts ... In any case, next will be a tuner upgrade. Either locking Grovers or locking Kluson-style Gotohs.
 
Re: Babicz FCH TOM Bridge and ES-335

Also, I will say this about the change - keep in mind the bridge and string gauge have changed: the bass is MUCH more present. All the notes are clearer. Played acoustically the guitar sounds more assertive, if that makes any sense. Previously notes would resonate within the body and there was a hint of dissonance, even though the intonation was good. The intonation is better now, so maybe that's it, or the strings (and the bridge?) provide a stronger fundamental. When I switch back to 10-46 I can at least compare apples to apples. It might not be for a few days though, as I might give this a go at band practice Wednesday. I'll see if it helps or hurts in the mix.
 
Re: Babicz FCH TOM Bridge and ES-335

I think it's an improvement over the TOM style bridge, individual string heights are more adjustable like a strat.

I wonder what the hardness rating is on it? That's what turned me onto callaham saddles for my strat, scientific proof that it's harder steel and the rave reviews.
 
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