Bass amp alternatives

[TRex]

I have been looking around at getting a bass amp once i have the time to finish my bass kit.

But i hear some people say a PA system is preferable in many cases due to its very high headroom and extra power.

I have also heard keyboard amps are much like Bass amps. However i noticed many are labeled as Keyboard amps/PA systems. Example http://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...e=&network=g&gclid=CNmQrIq-y8wCFdgYgQodNqEBuw

They have EQs and such that a PA might lack. They also have a mic in and line in, so i could use it as a PA when needed. This one even advertises that it can be used for Bass, and on Musicians friend they say it even has a "bass reflex cabinet".

Would one of these cheaper Keyboard PA systems be a good way to amplify my bass? Thoughts?

My school has an amp like this we use for electric violin, so i might be able to try it if i get off my butt and finish this bass.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Bass amp alternatives

I advise against buying the amplifier in the hyperlink for a number of reasons.

90w RMS is simply nowhere near enough power to make yourself heard in a Rock band context. Find out what wattage ratings the guitarists are using. Multiply that figure by at least four.

Keyboard amplifiers have a very linear dynamic response and EQ that are designed to suits sounds that come pretty much fully formed from the source instrument. The treble EQ governs the high end detail whilst the bass EQ control firms up the low end. Bass guitar needs more than this.

Many of today's better bass amplifiers have built-in compression and, if you are lucky, an overdrive circuit. Subtle use of these two can create some convincing vintage tones from a solid state or digital system.

 

[TRex]

Re: Bass amp alternatives

I advise against buying the amplifier in the hyperlink for a number of reasons.

90w RMS is simply nowhere near enough power to make yourself heard in a Rock band context. Find out what wattage ratings the guitarists are using. Multiply that figure by at least four.

Keyboard amplifiers have a very linear dynamic response and EQ that are designed to suits sounds that come pretty much fully formed from the source instrument. The treble EQ governs the high end detail whilst the bass EQ control firms up the low end. Bass guitar needs more than this.

Many of today's better bass amplifiers have built-in compression and, if you are lucky, an overdrive circuit. Subtle use of these two can create some convincing vintage tones from a solid state or digital system.

Im currently running a 20watt tube guitar amp, which is more than loud enough. 90 watts i would imagine would do for small gigs where a real PA isn't present.

Your point with the EQ is concerning though.



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[Funkfingers]

Re: Bass amp alternatives

A good 20w valve guitar amplifier could/should frighten the bejeezus out of a Chinese 90w Class D box.

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: Bass amp alternatives

A good 20w valve guitar amplifier could/should frighten the bejeezus out of a Chinese 90w Class D box.

Definitely. I'd go as far as to say that a 200 watt solid state bass amp is the bare minimum I'd try to play a gig with, unless it's a coffee shop with an acoustic act.

That said, I have a tube powered Music Man HD150 that will shake the tubes out of most 20 watt guitar amps with the volume and gain at 5 or above. That thing moves some serious air for only 150 watts. Through a good 410 it's killer.

A friend of mine has a Mesa Colosseum that will shake the tubes out of the MM. Just as with tube guitar amps, they are a lot louder than a SS amp of comparable wattage. That Mesa will flap yer sack. The Ampeg SVT is another one that shakes the ground...it's awe inspiring to be next to one wound up good and loud.

 

[TRex]

Re: Bass amp alternatives

Well there is also the KXD12, which is 600watts at only $350. Similar amp besides that. If 600 watts isnt enough, i dont know what is. Id be scared i couldnt practice or record at home, which is over 99% of what i plan to do.

I have tried an orange 50 watt bass amp, and it seemed plenty loud for a club or smaller gig. Bass is more of a second instrument to me, and im not sure ill be doing much gigging with it.

So a Keyboard amps EQ is different than a typical 3 or 5 ot 7 band eq on a bass amp?

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: Bass amp alternatives

Yeah, keyboard amps are pretty flat on the EQ. Bass amps mainly hit the areas that the strings on the bass are in.

As for the original question, unless the PA is ridiculously high wattage, the speakers will fart out or the amp will clip, and the flat EQ is all wrong for bass. Same as with electric guitar, it's the way the EQ is tailored to the instrument that make it sound good. PAs and keyboard amps are too clean and flat.

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Bass amp alternatives

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MAX115V2

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BA210v2

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BG250115

Any of those would be a better idea.

 

[Matt42]

Re: Bass amp alternatives

I'll add that keyboard amps aren't actually that great for violin/fiddle either. My ex is a fantastic fiddle player and we went through a ton of different setups before finding the perfect one. We tried DI straight to the PA, we tried a keyboard amp, we tried an acoustic guitar amp, we tried a bass amp, and eventually found that a tube guitar amp was the best solution. She gigged with a Mesa DC-5 for about a year, a 68 Bassman and a 62 Champ for another year or two after that. I assume she's still using the champ, but we haven't spoken in a few months.

The sound from the guitar amps was much warmer and much more authentic than we expected. When she tried out the Bassman in the shop, someone walked in from outside and commented that from the front door, it sounded like someone was playing a 50 ft long fiddle!

Have that violin player try one of your amps at some point, they may be surprised by how good it sounds.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Bass amp alternatives

This is a complete misnormer.

The only reason why a PA system should have more "headroom" (what does that even mean other than more low-distortion sound volume?) is that it was more expensive. Obviously, spending the same amount of money on amplifying bass only versus full-range will have the bass-only purchase come out higher quality than buying full-range and only using bass range.

I am a card-carrying Behringer hater. Don't do it.

I also advise against any amp for bass use if you cannot turn the tweeter off and run the low frequency speaker without the crossover. In any case, with a 90 watts full-range things with a crap speaker you have no hope of competing against a drummer, much less a drunk one.

Not that a Behringer product advertising 90 Watts will provide 90 Watts for the duration of a song...

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Bass amp alternatives

I use a Carvin 2x10 combo
It weighs in at 81 pounds

I have tried the bass modeling pedal and a powered PA speaker
With good results

Granted is a 400 watt Carvin speaker and a Digitech GNX pedal

The pa speaker weighs 35 pounds

If you use something like a BP series digitech and some quality powered PA
Should work out

 

[TRex]

Re: Bass amp alternatives

I guess ill just pick up a decent bass amp unless i can try my bass through our school's Kx1200 behringer keyboard amp.

Peavey max 112 sounds like a simple winner to me.

However, if most gigs anyway have you plug into a DI box before your amp, is 200w needed to be heard over a guitar amp and drummer?

I mean, our bass amps are essentially monitors right?

 

[ehdwuld]

Re: Bass amp alternatives

Buddy of mine got one of the peavey max 1x12 amps
He likes it
Line out to the pa if it's a large club

 

[dspiffy]

Re: Bass amp alternatives

That Behringer amp in the original post is horrible and underpowered.

I used to gig with a KC500 that I occasionally used for keybass and I know a bass player who used one for rehearsals. But if you need a bass amp, buy a bass amp. The input will be the proper impedance and gain structure, it will have the appropriate speakers, etc.

I used to have an SWR Workingman's 15 which worked well, and you can find them used pretty cheap.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Bass amp alternatives

record at home ... is over 99% of what i plan to do.

If your main use is home recording, there should be plenty of usable amplifier modelling presets already available in your computer recording software.

 

[TRex]

Re: Bass amp alternatives

Buddy of mine got one of the peavey max 1x12 amps
He likes it
Line out to the pa if it's a large club

Sounds prefect!

Direct out to PA on big gigs and plenty of headroom for jamming.

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[TRex]

Re: Bass amp alternatives

That Behringer amp in the original post is horrible and underpowered.

I used to gig with a KC500 that I occasionally used for keybass and I know a bass player who used one for rehearsals. But if you need a bass amp, buy a bass amp. The input will be the proper impedance and gain structure, it will have the appropriate speakers, etc.

I used to have an SWR Workingman's 15 which worked well, and you can find them used pretty cheap.

Yea, looks like beringer amps are shotty in reputation. Looks best to avoid them now. I did like theor sister brand Bugura's amps that i tried at GC though.

If your main use is home recording, there should be plenty of usable amplifier modelling presets already available in your computer recording software.

I dont have great speakers on my PC, just nice headphones. I would rather not have to practice with headphones all the time.

I might try that in the mean time. I should have my bass done in the next two weeks or so.

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[ehdwuld]

Re: Bass amp alternatives

A friend of mine has a Behringer bass head
He likes it
He records and does small church gigs

Come to think of it he did ask yesterday about a portable bass combo
We discussed the small Carvin and Peavey and TC Electronic offerings

Maybe he's not so happy

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Bass amp alternatives

I like my Fender Rumble v3, mine is way more power than you need, but the 40W or 100W would be a great practice amp, plus they have XLR output for a DI into a PA. The tones are great, lots of options for tonal shaping from Gain/Volume on clean channel, a built in distortion, 4 band EQ, bright switch, contour switch and "vintage" switch that rolls in compression and high end roll-off. I can get some pretty good vintage and modern type bass tones out of it.


Other option is a preamp, like a SansAmp into a full frequency amplifier...

 

[chadd]

Re: Bass amp alternatives

Buddy of mine got one of the peavey max 1x12 amps
He likes it
Line out to the pa if it's a large club

I picked up a Crate BX100 at the local guitar center for well under $100. It keeps up well with two guitars and a heavy hitting drummer and has a direct out if we need to run to a PA.