Bass Amp Oxymorononic Volume Differnce..

[y2stevo]

Assuming my Subject makes some sort of sense!

My bassist recently got a Warwick 3.2 ProFet 300watt Bass Head and A Behringer 600watt 2x10 cab.Basically we've discovered that this is not loud enough AT ALL, for Gigs,people we're complaining that they cannot hear the Bass unless I DI it to through the PA, and this is when we are running the unholy poopie out of it!!!.

Now I know that your thinking, What the Hell!!, These guys must be playing wayyy too loud if they're only playing Pubs. But i can say that most of the compliments from the Owners has been something like...." I like they way you guys aren't so in your face, People can still relax and talk over the music while your playing too, but I noticed your bass isn't loud enough....."

Skip to another gig where we decided we'd try borrow a friends Peavey Bass Combo with a 15 in it. This thing is rated at about 120watts output,Doesnt sound as good as the warwick, But when we played with it, We ran it about half way power and we got a few people saying that the Bass Was too loud!!!! :eek13: :eek13: :eek13: :eek13:
And even from playing the bass through it on half power on its own it was obvious that it was miles louder than the 300Watt warwick!!!

It's also the case with a few local bands that i know aswell, two of which have 150watt Trace Elliot Bass heads and cabs and are runing the about half way and they absolutley Fill the place with bass!!!


Is there any reason for this Huge confusing Volume Difference??

All amps are rated at RMS output etc etc....



This isn't really a problem anymore as I've just aquired a Dynacord Powermate 1000, So DI'ing the Bass for enough volume should be childs play now, but It's about principal... WHY is it doing this??? :smack:

Thanks for your input guys! :smokin:

 

[kmcguitars]

Re: Bass Amp Oxymorononic Volume Differnce..

Is the Warwick Bi-ampable? Could he be using the wrong output? (Just a random thought) I'm no expert on Bass amplification.

 

[TheArchitect]

Re: Bass Amp Oxymorononic Volume Differnce..

The efficiency of the speakers in the behringer cab is probably pretty low to keep costs down but cause a loss of volume.

 

[ParameterMan]

Re: Bass Amp Oxymorononic Volume Differnce..

I would try the Warwick through some different cabs. Sometimes Behringer is just not what you think should be.

 

[Tom M]

Re: Bass Amp Oxymorononic Volume Differnce..

Does he EQ the Warwick with a massive mid-cut or a huge bass boost?

I'd also look to the efficiency of the Berhinger.

 

[Benjy_26]

Re: Bass Amp Oxymorononic Volume Differnce..

The efficiency of the speakers in the behringer cab is probably pretty low to keep costs down but cause a loss of volume.

My thoughts exactly. Also, check out at what ohm rating the Warwick puts out all that power. Match it up with the right cab though, and it should be pretty loud.

BTW, I feel that 300w is marginal for bass. My bassist has a 900w SWR rig that kills small animals at 50 yards. That's what a bass should be.

 

[Rich_S]

Re: Bass Amp Oxymorononic Volume Differnce..

The efficiency of those 10's is probably awful is the bass' fundamental range. Unless you have a whole lot of them (think SVT) tens aren't going to make a lot of bass. Try them together with a 15 or an 18, and they'll complement it nicely.

For a more compact bass rig, a 1x15 is about the only way to go.

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: Bass Amp Oxymorononic Volume Differnce..

behringer makes ****ty cabs. That's just a fact. Think of their cabs as the equivalent of like a marshall MG cab.

2x10 isn't enough either, 2x10 and a 1x15 would do, but he needs AT LEAST a 4x10. My favorite is a 4x10 ontop of a 1x15, but a lot of people dig 8x10's.

if he's on a tight tight budget, i believe behringer makes a 1x15 cab, and it's prolly cheap as hell, so have him stick that under the 2x10 & run both. If he's got some cash to drop, have him get a real cab.

 

[y2stevo]

Re: Bass Amp Oxymorononic Volume Differnce..

We tried the Amp through A Dynacord Sub also and same Loudness, but much nicer tone..

ACtually the Warwick is ratet at 300W at 4OhM!!! but both cabs are 8.. So that obviousl will take it's toll!

 

[y2stevo]

Re: Bass Amp Oxymorononic Volume Differnce..

i guess my question is really, Why the hell is a 120W bass Combo soo much louder than a even a Dynacord powerdesk running at 250watts on one side into a Dynacord Sub!?

 

[The Golden Boy]

Re: Bass Amp Oxymorononic Volume Differnce..

BTW, I feel that 300w is marginal for bass. My bassist has a 900w SWR rig that kills small animals at 50 yards. That's what a bass should be.

I believe 300w per cab is fine, probably just about right. Remember that SM-900 is pushing 450w per channel at best. (and I believe that's at 2 ohms per channel)

2x10 isn't enough either, 2x10 and a 1x15 would do, but he needs AT LEAST a 4x10. My favorite is a 4x10 ontop of a 1x15, but a lot of people dig 8x10's.

There's a lot of people who would disagree with you. People with a lot more professional experience than I have. After years of experimentation and playing tons of stuff, I prefer a 2x15. I couldn't imagine with playing with anything less than 1x15- and I really don't like 10s at all.

i guess my question is really, Why the hell is a 120W bass Combo soo much louder than a even a Dynacord powerdesk running at 250watts on one side into a Dynacord Sub!?

Although efficiency is an issue, I think the main issue is the EQ. Were you running a mid scooped "smile?" Bass just sounds better with the mid scoop, however it doesn't cut through the mix. The bottom will get lost with the drums and the high end gets lost with the guitar. The big nut shaking thunder comes with that sound, but you have to have the power to push it. When I've played those Peavey TNT combos- even the ones with the 18 don't have that bottom end depth- I think those things are probably set up to be as efficient as possible.

 

[Erlend_G]

Re: Bass Amp Oxymorononic Volume Differnce..

I killed the drummer with my old, rotten peavey head (130w) feeding two PA speakers. The secret to make a bass "loud" is mids, not deep lows.

If i want a round, fat, deep bass out of my amp setup, i boost the low, low end, around 50hz. Though, this makes my amp run out of steam at only quarter volume! So, just remember to have some mids in the tone, and cut the very low lows when wanting to be heard .

-Erlend