Tom Huff
New member
Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal
Well it is still for sale as of now. Nudge nudge.
Well it is still for sale as of now. Nudge nudge.
Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal
- Thread starter FrankyBoy
- Start date
Gamera
New member
Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal
Out of curiosity, where did you hear it?
I own one and it does indeed do what you're looking for. The cleans are clean but very thick and warm. The clean channel is even called "warm." The dirt is pretty varied and does anything from a classic crunch to full out metal. It's a loud amp, even in the 30W setting. Maybe more for bedroom jamming even if nobody's home on the whole block. Great for jamming with a noisy drummer though.
I've personally had my best luck with a tube screamer in front of it and using either the warm clean or classic gain settings. This method seems to allow my guitar tone to come through better as the distorted channel has a habit of making any guitar sound like a Genz Benz El Diablo. The amp leans a little toward the thick and heavy side on all of its available tones. Even cranking the treble on my guitar and the treble settings on the amp can sometimes result in fat, thick tones.
Out of curiosity, where did you hear it?
I own one and it does indeed do what you're looking for. The cleans are clean but very thick and warm. The clean channel is even called "warm." The dirt is pretty varied and does anything from a classic crunch to full out metal. It's a loud amp, even in the 30W setting. Maybe more for bedroom jamming even if nobody's home on the whole block. Great for jamming with a noisy drummer though.
I've personally had my best luck with a tube screamer in front of it and using either the warm clean or classic gain settings. This method seems to allow my guitar tone to come through better as the distorted channel has a habit of making any guitar sound like a Genz Benz El Diablo. The amp leans a little toward the thick and heavy side on all of its available tones. Even cranking the treble on my guitar and the treble settings on the amp can sometimes result in fat, thick tones.
O
ozzynotwood
Guest
Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal
http://www.randallamplifiers.com/Amplifiers/Tube-Series-Amps/
http://www.randallamplifiers.com/Amplifiers/Tube-Series-Amps/
FrankyBoy
New member
Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal
HA HA HA HA! :lmao:
For those who don't know... Attack Attack! is known for crabcore...
HA HA HA HA! :lmao:
For those who don't know... Attack Attack! is known for crabcore...
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FrankyBoy
New member
Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal
I heard the demos from the Genz-Benz website.
http://www.genzbenz.com/?fa=video_eldmetal
I hear the thick tone you guys were talking about, makes me think of Killswitch Engage's tone.
I heard the demos from the Genz-Benz website.
http://www.genzbenz.com/?fa=video_eldmetal
I hear the thick tone you guys were talking about, makes me think of Killswitch Engage's tone.
FuseG4
Our Neighbor Totoro
everdrone
New member
Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal
your gonna have to sacrifice in one direction or the other. rock or metal. cause if you get a razor sharp attack amp for extreme metal, its not gonna sound like a rock amp. and vice versa. just the fundamentals.
just sayin'
your gonna have to sacrifice in one direction or the other. rock or metal. cause if you get a razor sharp attack amp for extreme metal, its not gonna sound like a rock amp. and vice versa. just the fundamentals.
just sayin'
FuseG4
Our Neighbor Totoro
Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal
^ another example of the "get two amps or a really clean one and a GOOD pedal" scenario. This only applies to people on budgets. Better amps can be more versatile. Anways...
Everyone who plays sufficiently different types of music (country and hard rock, classic rock and modern metal, for instance) needs a base-line amp that does what they do most often. The country guy can get a clean amp and either get a good OD pedal or a good dirty amp for everything else. I have a great mild-dirt amp and if I want metal I'm gonna get a second dirtier amp or, kill two birds and get a really good clean amp and a really good pedal.
You could light some dudes up with the right guitar, a fender hot rod and a metal zone. And that's skimping on the pedal.
Natural amp distortion kicks ass but if you cant find an amp that does mild and heavy to your liking, you're not screwed. Just shoot for the lower gain and use a pedal or buy a metal amp and a middle-of-the road type.
^ another example of the "get two amps or a really clean one and a GOOD pedal" scenario. This only applies to people on budgets. Better amps can be more versatile. Anways...
Everyone who plays sufficiently different types of music (country and hard rock, classic rock and modern metal, for instance) needs a base-line amp that does what they do most often. The country guy can get a clean amp and either get a good OD pedal or a good dirty amp for everything else. I have a great mild-dirt amp and if I want metal I'm gonna get a second dirtier amp or, kill two birds and get a really good clean amp and a really good pedal.
You could light some dudes up with the right guitar, a fender hot rod and a metal zone. And that's skimping on the pedal.
Natural amp distortion kicks ass but if you cant find an amp that does mild and heavy to your liking, you're not screwed. Just shoot for the lower gain and use a pedal or buy a metal amp and a middle-of-the road type.
Petrovsk Mizinski
New member
Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal
Joey has never used real amps on any of his productions.
POD XT and POD Farm only to date.
He gets easily some of the best POD tones in existence
Joey has never used real amps on any of his productions.
POD XT and POD Farm only to date.
He gets easily some of the best POD tones in existence
Petrovsk Mizinski
New member
Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal
Any looking at what the OP wants, a lot of it seems to just contradict itself.
You want high gain, tight tones, but you're not willing to get at least an 100 watt amp?
You're not going to nail KSE tones with anything less than 100 watts, KSE tone comes from having amps with tons of headroom.
You want tube dynamics, but you want to play a fair bit in your bedroom?
Honestly, sell the Metalzone, keep the Cube for your bedroom because unless you buy a SUPER low wattage amp you're not going to get the proper tube feel in the bedroom (although AFAIK the ENGL Powerball is one of the few tube amps that genuinely sounds good at bedroom levels, but you can't afford that anyway).
And a super low wattage amp doesn't do modern metal anyway, so that's out of the equation.
Save up for a 5150 head and cab combination.
It will do EXACTLY what you want at jamming levels (with a drummer type jamming levels). End of Heartache uses 2 tracks of 5150 for the rhythm guitar FWIW.
If not, find a decent amp modeling solution that will do higher volume stuff than your Cube.
Any looking at what the OP wants, a lot of it seems to just contradict itself.
You want high gain, tight tones, but you're not willing to get at least an 100 watt amp?
You're not going to nail KSE tones with anything less than 100 watts, KSE tone comes from having amps with tons of headroom.
You want tube dynamics, but you want to play a fair bit in your bedroom?
Honestly, sell the Metalzone, keep the Cube for your bedroom because unless you buy a SUPER low wattage amp you're not going to get the proper tube feel in the bedroom (although AFAIK the ENGL Powerball is one of the few tube amps that genuinely sounds good at bedroom levels, but you can't afford that anyway).
And a super low wattage amp doesn't do modern metal anyway, so that's out of the equation.
Save up for a 5150 head and cab combination.
It will do EXACTLY what you want at jamming levels (with a drummer type jamming levels). End of Heartache uses 2 tracks of 5150 for the rhythm guitar FWIW.
If not, find a decent amp modeling solution that will do higher volume stuff than your Cube.
FuseG4
Our Neighbor Totoro
Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal
Tube dynamics is NOT only about full on power tube saturation.
Almost any decent tube amp can under 40W can hit the type of touch-sensitive edge-of-breakup dynamics tube lovers enjoy, without getting you kicked out of your house. The kind where you get just a hint of grit when you hit it hard... this is a magic spot for pedals because it'll add to the distortion pedal's dirt with it's own warmth and grit when you play harder. That's also the point where you can back off the guitar's volume and clean it up pretty well, even through many dirt pedals.
some solid state amps can kinda pull that off but generally they suck at it!
I don't really care what volume he's playing at, you don't have to crank a tube amp to get everything out of it. Some of the best stuff is up there but it's not everything.
Tube dynamics is NOT only about full on power tube saturation.
Almost any decent tube amp can under 40W can hit the type of touch-sensitive edge-of-breakup dynamics tube lovers enjoy, without getting you kicked out of your house. The kind where you get just a hint of grit when you hit it hard... this is a magic spot for pedals because it'll add to the distortion pedal's dirt with it's own warmth and grit when you play harder. That's also the point where you can back off the guitar's volume and clean it up pretty well, even through many dirt pedals.
some solid state amps can kinda pull that off but generally they suck at it!
I don't really care what volume he's playing at, you don't have to crank a tube amp to get everything out of it. Some of the best stuff is up there but it's not everything.
Petrovsk Mizinski
New member
Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal
Yes but he wants to play KSE and Attack Attack. Not wanting
"grit when you hit it hard".
He wants balls out gain and presumably, a very clean clean that doesn't break up.
A low wattage amp does not have the necessary head room to cover those styles of playing.
There is reason why modern metal bands and metal producers/engineers almost always use amps with at least 100 watts, because anything less will typically not feel and sound good for the style.
And the whole point of modern high gain tube amps is they don't need to be turned up to 10 anyway.
They actually sound like crap on full master volume.
Again, it comes back to the headroom thing, and 40 watts wont cut it
Yes but he wants to play KSE and Attack Attack. Not wanting
"grit when you hit it hard".
He wants balls out gain and presumably, a very clean clean that doesn't break up.
A low wattage amp does not have the necessary head room to cover those styles of playing.
There is reason why modern metal bands and metal producers/engineers almost always use amps with at least 100 watts, because anything less will typically not feel and sound good for the style.
And the whole point of modern high gain tube amps is they don't need to be turned up to 10 anyway.
They actually sound like crap on full master volume.
Again, it comes back to the headroom thing, and 40 watts wont cut it
FrankyBoy
New member
Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal
In facts, I am looking for a little bit of break-up. I'm looking for the tube feel, cause when I play the roland, the clean never breaks-up (volume of the amp doesn't affect anything) and I don't quite like this.
P.S. I don't like the metalzone. Sounds thin, trebly, the only setting I like is with an "overdrive" setting, so I'm not even using it that much.
In facts, I am looking for a little bit of break-up. I'm looking for the tube feel, cause when I play the roland, the clean never breaks-up (volume of the amp doesn't affect anything) and I don't quite like this.
P.S. I don't like the metalzone. Sounds thin, trebly, the only setting I like is with an "overdrive" setting, so I'm not even using it that much.
FuseG4
Our Neighbor Totoro
Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal
have you ever played a marshall haze? the 40 W combo, not the head.
It's a decent classic rock amp, and not a good metal amp on it's own, as the gain channel is too loose in the lows. But a good pedal in front of it will give you some good gain and tighten things up. The el34s tubes naturally put out enough power to make whatever you put in front of it sound huge. From there, you may want to think about the guitar. Maybe a 25" scale with an a8 humbucker. If you can't get some kind of decent metal tone from that I'd be surprised.
That amp gets slammed on for not sounding like marshalls from days of yore but if you approach it unbiased it does have tone to offer.
have you ever played a marshall haze? the 40 W combo, not the head.
It's a decent classic rock amp, and not a good metal amp on it's own, as the gain channel is too loose in the lows. But a good pedal in front of it will give you some good gain and tighten things up. The el34s tubes naturally put out enough power to make whatever you put in front of it sound huge. From there, you may want to think about the guitar. Maybe a 25" scale with an a8 humbucker. If you can't get some kind of decent metal tone from that I'd be surprised.
That amp gets slammed on for not sounding like marshalls from days of yore but if you approach it unbiased it does have tone to offer.
ImmortalSix
John Mayer's Mankini
Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal
:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
HA HA HA HA! :lmao:
For those who don't know... Attack Attack! is known for crabcore...
:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:
ImmortalSix
John Mayer's Mankini
Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal
Embarrassingly enough, I own the album that that music video (and the resultant hilarious gif) are from.
I was making stir fry one night, and a song came up on Pandora that went from crunk to metal to girlpants to techno, and I flipped 'em a ten-spot and bought the album just because I thought they deserved a pat on the back for either seamlessly integrating 4 disparate musical styles, or alternately (and much more likely), shamelessly gimmicking their way into the limelight.
Anyhow, yep - I have that CD. Sitting in my truck console next to Bill Frisell, John Mayer, Works Progress Administration, and Tommy Emmanuel.
Seems almost sacrilegous. :laughing:
P.S. I just remembered I even wrote it up on TLA. Read that for a laugh.
Embarrassingly enough, I own the album that that music video (and the resultant hilarious gif) are from.
I was making stir fry one night, and a song came up on Pandora that went from crunk to metal to girlpants to techno, and I flipped 'em a ten-spot and bought the album just because I thought they deserved a pat on the back for either seamlessly integrating 4 disparate musical styles, or alternately (and much more likely), shamelessly gimmicking their way into the limelight.
Anyhow, yep - I have that CD. Sitting in my truck console next to Bill Frisell, John Mayer, Works Progress Administration, and Tommy Emmanuel.
Seems almost sacrilegous. :laughing:
P.S. I just remembered I even wrote it up on TLA. Read that for a laugh.
Lake Placid Blues
New member
Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal
A used 50watt JCM800 with 6550's is what you really want but don't know it yet. Save up. Perhaps install a FX loop. These amps respond well to the right pedals and good pre-amps for more gain, and they got the beef and the tube tone. Keep the Cube too, their great for what their for.
The JCM-800 4010 is the 1x12 combo version of the 2204 head. The 4104 is the 2x12 version. But you may want a closed back cab for the stuff your into. A head and a closed back cab with the speaker(s) best suited for it and your misic styles may meet you needs better.
A used 50watt JCM800 with 6550's is what you really want but don't know it yet. Save up. Perhaps install a FX loop. These amps respond well to the right pedals and good pre-amps for more gain, and they got the beef and the tube tone. Keep the Cube too, their great for what their for.
The JCM-800 4010 is the 1x12 combo version of the 2204 head. The 4104 is the 2x12 version. But you may want a closed back cab for the stuff your into. A head and a closed back cab with the speaker(s) best suited for it and your misic styles may meet you needs better.
Gamera
New member
Re: Best affordable 20W to 50W Combo tube amp for Rock/Metal
Yes and no. The Genz Benz actually can do this fairly well thanks to the tube contour knob (I think that's what it's called, I'm not in front of it now.) Unfortunately there are no demos on their site to showcase the classic gain side of the El Diablo which is quite nice and a little similar to the Black Pearl demo linked above.
The El Diablo does have a lot of nice features and is very versatile. If you have a chance to play one, make sure you do so. It may not be for everyone, especially if you have a preconceived tone in your head before buying. I've owned one for a couple years and there are days I love it and days I hate it. It has a big, fat, thick, warm base tone. And thanks to the controls you can tweak that tone in a number of different ways for different applications. Make sure you like that base tone though as you'll never be able to escape it.
Yes and no. The Genz Benz actually can do this fairly well thanks to the tube contour knob (I think that's what it's called, I'm not in front of it now.) Unfortunately there are no demos on their site to showcase the classic gain side of the El Diablo which is quite nice and a little similar to the Black Pearl demo linked above.
The El Diablo does have a lot of nice features and is very versatile. If you have a chance to play one, make sure you do so. It may not be for everyone, especially if you have a preconceived tone in your head before buying. I've owned one for a couple years and there are days I love it and days I hate it. It has a big, fat, thick, warm base tone. And thanks to the controls you can tweak that tone in a number of different ways for different applications. Make sure you like that base tone though as you'll never be able to escape it.
