Best Cheap Shred Machines out there today...

[Top-L]

Thats just nasty. I'm assuming you forgot the wink emoji.

 

[Top-L]

bar none ...are the new Kramers...

My first experience with cheap Chinese shredders was a Dean 350f. It was a $300 basswood bolt on with a FRS trem. That was almost exactly ten years ago. It was probably made in a similar factory to the new Kramers.

At the time, my nicer guitars were out of sorts, and I wanted a 24 fret guitar to play some shred songs I was working on. I upgraded the trem block to an OFR block, and that was the first guitar I leveled myself.. which came out great! It was my main guitar for at least five years.


The frets on that were medium or medium jumbo, with soft metal. They wore down and I leveled it a second time, still a great playing guitar.

But I realized several years back that the guitar neck was taking a bad set. Too much relief at the heel, not enough farther down the neck. I leveled it one more time, but had to chop down the upper frets so its not really comfortable for shredding higher on the neck.

It is technically playable, but its pretty much junk now. The FRS doesn't return to zero as well as it did. Its ugly. And the neck/frets need to be replaced. Its a throwaway guitar. I want to fix it up just because of how much time I spent with it and because it did have a nice sound.

The moral of this story is that these cheap guitars aren't built for the long haul. They use cheap, soft fretwire of smaller dimension (medium). The necks are likely not reinforced so they will distort over time, and when it comes down to it, they are homely compared to more expensive guitars.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Well,this 'nt really about cheap vs. expensive....it's about which cheapo's rule :laugh2:

Which brings us back to the new Kramer's ....imo nothing touches a Baretta Sp. for $200+ new ..at least for shred.:

But regarding your point. I honestly don't know why you need so much levelling done to your guitars. How many hours a day do you play :laugh2:

I have 20+ year old Cort's that still play as good as the day I bought them. Maybe I've been lucky, but, apart from my old MIJ Ibanez Destroyer DT250 (warped neck) I've never had axe's go bad on me over the years (30+) cheap or expensive (and when I say expensive that's subjective, because my most expensive guitar's are actually mid-priced) and I've never levelled any of them except my S540 (once) which was done by a luthier.

I've played on 70 year old Les Paul's (two..my Dad's) ..the less said about them, the better lol & I've played other $$ guitar's ....PRS's (another guitar/design that does nothing for me) various custom shop job's etc. but the one's I love best & play best are cheap-to-mid-priced (import) superstrats... most specifically, I'm partial to Indo one's.

They're the best bang for the buck imo. China, ,on the oher hand, is generally more hit and miss for QC. You could get a good one (my Grote, AXL, Ironbird etc) and be golden or get something atrocious sometimes. Usually I stick to the REALLY cheap Chinese ones, so dud's/losses are easier to absorb w/o heartbreak :lmao:

But thankfully there really have'nt been too many of those..

 

[Top-L]

But regarding your point. I honestly don't know why you need so much levelling done to your guitars. How many hours a day do you play :laugh2:

This is a decade condensed into a single post.

Woodshedding several hours a day on that one guitar for period of a few years. Two things were happening, frets were wearing down, but also the neck was changing.

The neck changes are why it needed levels. Because the frets were short to begin with, there wasn't alot of height to work with.

My higher quality guitars I have leveled once and they seem to keep the profile.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

My Indo Cort's (and all my cheapo's from there..) have reallly nice fret-job's & high quality fret's....comparable to anything I've come across on MIJ Jackson's, Ibby's, Charvel's etc. Never had any issues of the sort you experienced..I guess that's why I'm more partial to the Indonesian stuff..

 

[Phantasmagoria]

I just bought an MIJ RG Prestige last year..a beautiful guitar. But I kid you not....the Indo S09LTD1 I just got is easily on the same level as that axe as an instrument in every concievable way. Workmanship, material, finish, setup playability, hardware, looks, feel, features ...you name it. It exudes class. The only reason it does'nt have "Prestige" on the headstock is cuz it's made in Indonesia..

 

[Top-L]

I just bought an MIJ RG Prestige last year..a beautiful guitar. But I kid you not....the Indo S09LTD1 I just got is easily on the same level as that axe as an instrument in every concievable way. Workmanship, material, finish, setup playability, hardware, looks, feel, features ...you name it. It exudes class. The only reason it does'nt have "Prestige" on the headstock is cuz it's made in Indonesia..

I've had Japanese RGs. The RG550-570s were pretty barebones before the Prestige moniker. You could see the wood joins through the paint, that kind of thing. But they originally had the Edge trem. The RG550s were not as well built as my S540s. But the RGs were only $600 guitars.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

I bought my Sabre (540) new in '94 for about $800. It played pretty sweet right out of the box though there was a little buzz on the 12th fret which I later fixed/filed down. I also had an RG550 (bought used) for a few months that I sold cuz it just did'nt sound/play anywhere near as good to me.

It's probably only 1 of 2 guitar's I've ever sold (the other being a Korean Warlock which mostly sucked but brought the chuggz)....3 if you count my DT250 which I sold to my Bass player, but then bought back despite it being unplayable for sentimental reason's (and I still have boxed away somewhere). But yeah the old MIJ Sabre's were practically Prestige level guitar's imo, maybe with in-house pup's & slightly more basic finishes...

 

[Top-L]

My first s540 was $1100-something. My first J-RG was $600. So the s540 were roughly twice the price. This was before prestige.

Sometime in the 00s, they started building lots of pretty guitars with downgraded trems in korea and indonesia, and they put the Edge and LoPros on the Prestige and higher J guitars, which were in the 1200+ range.

I judge Ibanez quality based on the trem installed. If it has an Edge or LoPro it is a high quality instrument. Most of them are in the 2000+ range now. There are some exceptions like early 90s RGs and the reissues they have made the past few years.

This is my problem with Ibanez. The lower tier trems are not parts compatible and are intentionally made inferior (tiny tone block) and there isn't anything you can do to upgrade them. I'm sure some of them are fine guitars, but I wouldn't mess with anything that doesnt have an Edge or LoPro.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Lo-pro's have pretty dinky tone blocks (and Ibanez favour's pot-metal which I'm partial to the tone of :lmao Having said that, Lo-pro's are my fave trem ever. ZR's are actually sxcellent as well. I mean the actual bridge itself is twice as chunky/heavy as a Floyd, so much so that it makes the size of the tone-block irrelevant imo. Those bridge's lack for nothing either tone or stability wise (although there is some difference in feel, which some people like & some dislike. I 'm fine with that difference personally) and the Edge Zero II is a decent/stable trem as well, at least in my experience. I have them on 3-4 guitar's..with and w/o Zpse's

The Zpse/Zpse II thing is a great feature/gizmo imo and makes bridge angle adjustment a breeze. All my guitar's are tuned down a half step which means with every new guitar I buy..I alway's need to open up back cavity's and fiddle around with screwdriver's to set the tremolo's up.

The Zpse make all that a breeze and it can all be levelled out & set up perfectly with the turn of a thumbscrew in a matter of second's. I've left my 7 String Sabre (ZR w/ Zpse II) untouched for years (not a great one for 7 strings though it's an awesome axe) then taken it out of it's gig-bag in PERFECT tune, so much so that I could record w/o even fine tuning...

Yeah I'm a huge fan of the ZR tremolo's. They're actually pretty revolutionary design-wise. I've wanted a six string Sabre for years with one of them and I finally got one (totally lives up to my expectations) :bigthumb:

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Oh, and Yeah, I was mistaken my S540 was $1200 not 800....don't know why I forgot that...

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Here's the RG Prestige I bought last year. It's Ash not basswood. This probably should'nt be in a cheap guitar thread...but ii's got an Edge so "on topic" :laugh2:

It shreds nice too....mind you it's no Sabre :lmao:

J/k ..RG or not ..this thing has a fair bit of rocket propulsion of it's own going on :bigthumb:

 

[Phantasmagoria]

My first s540 was $1100-something. My first J-RG was $600. So the s540 were roughly twice the price. This was before prestige.

Sometime in the 00s, they started building lots of pretty guitars with downgraded trems in korea and indonesia, and they put the Edge and LoPros on the Prestige and higher J guitars, which were in the 1200+ range.

.

I actually bought one of those those early 2000's Indo Sabre's used off ebay about 15 years ago and it arrived with the finish fucked up, cuz the guy I bought in from had just thrown the trem-bar in the box along with a bunch of allen keys strewn around and the quilt top arrived looking like it had passed through a cheese-grater...so it was returned/refunded. It was a trans-black quilted job ....matching headstock, ZR trem, INF pup's I think. Build quality was decent but no different from my Cort's and other Indo Ibby's of the time or the S870/S520's I bought recently... all great guitar's, but not built like Prestige's.

This S09LTD1 is a cut above. It feels like a superior instrument in every way. Super solid. It was a Ltd edition/spot model that they only made a few of for a year to sell in Europe and it is on another level. I'd be curious to know what they cost new. (Got it for $450)

 

[Phantasmagoria]

It's got the string-retainer & old-school truss rod cover (that you have to unscrew for access) & 22 frets too..unlike those other Indo Sabre's...

 

[Rex_Rocker]

What's the neck profile on those like?

I like the Ibanez Wizard, but not the Wizard II. Is it anything like either of those? Or is it more LTD Thin U-ish?

 

[Top-L]

What's the neck profile on those like?

I like the Ibanez Wizard, but not the Wizard II. Is it anything like either of those? Or is it more LTD Thin U-ish?

The necks on my s540s are much thinner than the m400 and m1000 necks. I prefer the ltd necks by a bit. Why go super thin? Thicker is like to be more stable.

Idk if they are w1 or w2.

I remember the korean necks were bigger.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

What's the neck profile on those like?

I like the Ibanez Wizard, but not the Wizard II. Is it anything like either of those? Or is it more LTD Thin U-ish?

It's a wizard II....not that that hamper's anything for me at all. I can fly up & down the fretboard just as I do with my 540 (original Wizard) or the other 3 new Sabre's (Wizard III's).

I do believe they're (Wizard II's) marginally thicker by about an mm more than original Wizard's (if anything that gives it a more solid feel that I like..or it might be the bubinga stripes) but otherwise the same radius and width. Looking at them side by side, shape/profile seems about the same too with the flat-ish back unlike the wizard III's which are obviously more rounded/C shaped..

Anyway, it's a fucking fast neck witha nice smooth lite-gloss finish like my 540's ..so no complaint's

I pretty much love every Wizard neck I've ever played. They're all brilliant! (7 string Wizard's included)

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Well the current Wizard HP's have titanium reinforcements, don't they? I doubt they suffer from inestability.

Personally for me, the thinner, the better. If I get a thin neck, I want to go all out.

I've never tried the Wizard III's that I remember. I didn't like the Wizard II in my old Cort S470 because it felt really flat, just not all that thin, so it almost felt like playing a plank of wood compared to my Wizard Prestige that I had at the time. I heard the Japanese Wizard II's were better.

I don't hate the Wizard II that I played, TBH. It's just that if it's not paper-thin, I prefer a neck to be more C/U-shaped. Kinda like the standard LTD necks.

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Oh, it's a really comfortable/fast neck to me & the difference in thickness is so minimal I honestly can't tell them apart, apart from it seeming to have a more"solid" feel to it than my old 540's which seems a bit more flexable/capable of bending somehow (though it's still straight as an arrow after 30+ years..so there's that :laugh2. Pretty sure the shapes of both necks are identical. Both flatter at the back but that's 100% ideal for me cuz I have my thumb in he middle and it's what feels most comfortable to me with almost no resistance..

I'm not sure what the Wizard III's have in terms of reinforcement if anything. My RG652 Prestige has a 'super-wizard HP'. I guess that has titanium reinforcement then? Honestly every Wizard neck I've played feels instantly familiar and comfy and is obscenely fast Even the Wizard III's. They are really thin . But yeah definitely more rounded at the back than before..though I don't even really notice that unless I;m looking at it..

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Oh, it's a really comfortable/fast neck to me & the difference in thickness is so minimal I honestly can't tell them apart, apart from it seeming to have a more"solid" feel to it than my old 540's which seems a bit more flexable/capable of bending somehow (though it's still straight as an arrow after 30+ years..so there's that). Pretty sure the shapes of both necks are identical. Both flatter at the back but that's 100% ideal for me cuz I have my thumb in he middle and it's what feels most comfortable to me with almost no resistance..

I'm not sure what the Wizard III's have in terms of reinforcement if anything. My RG652 Prestige has a 'super-wizard HP'. I guess that has titanium reinforcement then? Honestly every Wizard neck I've played feels instantly familiar and comfy and is obscenely fast Even the Wizard III's. They are really thin . But yeah definitely more rounded at the back than before..though I don't even really notice that unless I;m looking at it..

I guess the thing is I had that S470 at the same time that I had an RGA121, and I LOVED that guitar so much that I compared everything to it, and everything else kept losing, LOL. I wish I'd had kept that guitar. I even had an RG570 from the 90's with the Super Wizard neck, and that felt incredible. Slightly tinner, but I still kinda liked the Prestige better. But not because of the neck profile, but because the Prestige was jus overall nicer looking and sounding. I didn't feel like either guitars' necks were less stable than anything else I've had.

I'm sure that if got a Wizard II now, and I compared it to my Epi and my Gibson, it would feel lighting fast and paper thin, LOL. Hell, even my Squier's neck feels like that sometimes compared to the Gibbo 50's, and even the Gibbo 50's is sleeker than the Epi, haha.

But yeah, even though I rarely ever play leads, I'm a thumb behind the neck guy as well.