Best overdrive i've ever purchased (friedman)

[NegativeEase]

I don't think it's really that simple.

Yeah, it would need to a sort of a power ramp up over time -not the notes themselves being delayed.

I'm not sure how they simulate it.

 

[Bogner]

Tube amps have power latency. So if anything you would add latency to a Kemper to get tube feel.

You don't understand how the Kemper works. Read my post above a few up. That will help.

 

[Bogner]

What do modelers do that is so different from a Kemper? So for the Kemper, they measure the response of the original amp and derive coefficients for a transfer function? What do companies do when they develop modelers?

Read my quote you quoted very carefully. Then read it again.

I am not an engineer. What I am saying is there is a difference from a modeler and a profiler. My analogy is very accurate.

 

[Bogner]

I have taken signal processing courses in electrical engineering, and I am not convinced that you understand the difference either.

It sounds like you would measure what happens to the signal between the input jack and the microphone, then build a mathematical model using a variable-coefficient finite impulse response filter in the digital domain. Cool. I like it. But what does an actual modeler try to do?

Me convincing you or anybody else is not my priority. I am simply explaining the differences between the two. Do you have the units in question? I do, and the differences are as I explained. In the simplest of terms that I can articulate. The Kemper takes the snapshot of the actual amp, cabinet, mic, etc. Whatever is in the capture and grabs those settings and those settings only. That is why a good capture is important because that is all you have. You do not have the entire amp on a capture. You can adjust a capture but you don't have the entire amp.

On the modeler, you are attempting to mirror an amp, not a single setting...though I guess you could be snarky and say a modeler captures a zillion different single settings and puts them together but I digress. You are not capturing the cabinet, etc. The modeler is trying to sound like the amp in question all the way around.

There is a huge difference. I don't care about the how's and why's. I care about the sound and to me the Kemper is the most amp like, real in response and feel, etc than anything else. If you have a great capture, you are golden. If you have a bad capture, you most likely can't turn that around and turn it into something brilliant. There are differences between the two. Both sound good overall. The Kemper IMO is easier to deal with and mess with and the adjustability is more like an amp. Something like the AXE FX "can" sound absolutely incredible with all the fine tuning capabilities. The more you mess with it wisely, the better it sounds, again...(IMO). The two are very different. The electronics and such behind all that on each unit is not my concern. I am talking pure results and sound.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Tube amps have power latency. So if anything you would add latency to a Kemper to get tube feel.

I don't think it's really that simple.

I said it was “as responsive” not more and not less. Whatever Kemper is doing is working very well.
If you get the chance to check one out (if you haven’t already) you’re gonna love it.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Now we are getting somewhere. I did a little reading and watched this video, where the guy takes twenty minutes but does get to the meat of the difference.

The concept behind the profiler is actually simpler than a modeler. You take a high-quality measurement of the amp dialed in on one killer sound, and you code the Kemper digitally to produce the one great sound you measured. You do not get the sound of the amp on another channel or with the gain control at a different setting or with the EQ wildly different or with a different cabinet or different power tubes. Its like a high-resolution still photograph of a landmark taken at a precise instant in time.

On a modeler, they try to give you more control, but are they profiling the original amp hundreds or thousands of times on different settings? Probably not. Do they actually profile every combination of possible effects and preamps and power amps and heads and combos and cabinets and mics? No way. Im guessing there are a lot of shortcuts taken with modelers. They might start with some profiles, but I suspect there are a lot of quick and dirty ways to model the various blocks. This is probably more like an animated cartoon of the landmark as the seasons change and numerous people walk by. There is a lot more room for interpretation and variation in execution.

I get that you love what the Kemper does. I have not tried one. I was only trying to understand what it does that is different.

When you buy a profile pack from a professional profiler they typically come with a wide variety (20-40) captures that represent a variety of tones that amp is capable of. So you get clean to mean from the pack you buy.

 

[NegativeEase]

I said it was “as responsive” not more and not less. Whatever Kemper is doing is working very well.
If you get the chance to check one out (if you haven’t already) you’re gonna love it.

Yeah, I've got a friend with one at his studio I'm going to check out one day.

I'm sure it's pretty good at minimum -otherwise he wouldn't have one.

 

[Bogner]

Now we are getting somewhere. I did a little reading and watched this video, where the guy takes twenty minutes but does get to the meat of the difference.

The concept behind the profiler is actually simpler than a modeler. You take a high-quality measurement of the amp dialed in on one killer sound, and you code the Kemper digitally to produce the one great sound you measured. You do not get the sound of the amp on another channel or with the gain control at a different setting or with the EQ wildly different or with a different cabinet or different power tubes. Its like a high-resolution still photograph of a landmark taken at a precise instant in time.

On a modeler, they try to give you more control, but are they profiling the original amp hundreds or thousands of times on different settings? Probably not. Do they actually profile every combination of possible effects and preamps and power amps and heads and combos and cabinets and mics? No way. Im guessing there are a lot of shortcuts taken with modelers. They might start with some profiles, but I suspect there are a lot of quick and dirty ways to model the various blocks. This is probably more like an animated cartoon of the landmark as the seasons change and numerous people walk by. There is a lot more room for interpretation and variation in execution.

I get that you love what the Kemper does. I have not tried one. I was only trying to understand what it does that is different.

Right..so back to what I was saying in post #48.

I love what the others do as well, don' get me wrong. The Kemper doesn't have latency issues nor does it respond like a modeler because it isn't a modeler. 99.99999999% of the time Kemper is lumped in with the others and it is not. Doesn't make it better or worse, just makes it different. THAT....is what I am talking about. The likeness (on good capture) it has to the amp it is profiled after, cab, room, blah blah blah is spot on and incredible when done right. That is very different than tweaking and getting a good sound on some other piece of gear. Doesn't make one better than the other necessarily. It just makes them different. On the Kemper, if you tweak the profile you are tweaking the particular capture. That is vastly different than tweaking a real amp or even tweaking a modeler of a real amp.

I may even be willing to go so far as to say it is probably more technology and more difficult from a designer/engineer perspective to make a modeler than a profiler. I don't know for sure but I could see that being realistic in theory based on the individual capture of a profiler and the full invention of algo's to mirror your favorite amp and do so convincingly.

 

[Gtrjunior]

Obviously what matters to me most as a player is how inspiring the sound is, in terms of making me want to play and try new musical ideas, and what the equipment does to help me get those tones and work with other gear I may be using, etc. I often get sidetracked because I also love the details of how and why all the stuff works and how it is designed and built.

The biggest appeal to me about the Kemper is that I actually understand the editing parameters.
Prior to buying the Kemper I bought an Atomic Amplifire and the deep editing was a complete turn off to me. I would imagine the AxeFX dives even deeper.

 

[Demanic]

Now we are getting somewhere. I did a little reading and watched this video, where the guy takes twenty minutes but does get to the meat of the difference.

The concept behind the profiler is actually simpler than a modeler. You take a high-quality measurement of the amp dialed in on one killer sound, and you code the Kemper digitally to produce the one great sound you measured. You do not get the sound of the amp on another channel or with the gain control at a different setting or with the EQ wildly different or with a different cabinet or different power tubes. Its like a high-resolution still photograph of a landmark taken at a precise instant in time.

On a modeler, they try to give you more control, but are they profiling the original amp hundreds or thousands of times on different settings? Probably not. Do they actually profile every combination of possible effects and preamps and power amps and heads and combos and cabinets and mics? No way. Im guessing there are a lot of shortcuts taken with modelers. They might start with some profiles, but I suspect there are a lot of quick and dirty ways to model the various blocks. This is probably more like an animated cartoon of the landmark as the seasons change and numerous people walk by. There is a lot more room for interpretation and variation in execution.

I get that you love what the Kemper does. I have not tried one. I was only trying to understand what it does that is different.

I would think that a high end modeler would do exactly that. It might seem like a lot of information to record, store and access. But then, look at what your average smartphone can do.

Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk

 

[Demanic]

Based on my experience with my Line6 Spidervalve, I think that they took different amps and effects and recorded them with different settings and then added software to extrapolate the interactions, both within individual amps and effects as well as between amps and effects.

Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk

 

[Open lane]

I tried to put the beod pedal into a roland street cube a couple weeks ago and was really not pleased. When i get some time i'm gonna try it in my DAW

 

[Bogner]

You are really married to that post, arent you? :chairfall

Not at all. But I do find it funny how you would refuse to take my word for what I said and question what I was saying only to go digging and find out you agree with what I said in the first place. Carry on...

 

[Gtrjunior]

I tried to put the beod pedal into a roland street cube a couple weeks ago and was really not pleased. When i get some time i'm gonna try it in my DAW

You might want to try it through a real amp. Lol

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

My understanding is Kemper is like a digital piano whose sound is samples of real acoustic piano, while Axe Fx is like a synth attempting to replicate piano sound using fancy processing etc.

Of course, the digital piano wins every time as it utilizes the actual sound (not a made up) of an acoustic piano.

Me I'd settle on the holy trinity (5150, Boogie, Soldano) anytime if I had 10 grand to burn...lol.

 

[CaptainWhizz]

What was the consensus on the Uzi and the Fireman? Good soundalikes of the BE-OD pedal?

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

The Uzi turned my wimpy Laney into a hi-gain machine even with the EQ at 12. The Bias control I think is just a tone control in disguise; you can't possibly switch between Mesa and Marshall with a turn of a knob. I think they stole the idea from Blackstar amp...that yellow cab/ London taxi knob you know.

Not sure about it being a BE OD clone, some say it is Joyo's own creation.

 

[Bogner]

Now back to what I was saying in post #70.

You are really married to that post aren't you...? :chairfall

:bigok:

:beerchug:

:lmao:

 

[Open lane]

You might want to try it through a real amp. Lol

I already posted my thoughts about my feelings through "real amps" in my original post. Was mentioning how it was through the roland to add to the discussion.