Best PAF tone ???????

[JLH]

Hey, new guy on the block, With all of this Duncan experience, I was hoping the Forum could lead me to the best Humbucker that SD makes to produce the pure 1959 Gibson PAF LesPaul Tone????? Any Opinions from experience????
Of course i will be installing in a Reissue 1959 Custom Shop LesPaul

 

[xxxplorer]

Re: Best PAF tone ???????

the 59!? I liked that one... PG is liked here as well.

 

[lemonman]

Re: Best PAF tone ???????

Hi, welcome to the forum! Which 59 PAF tone do you want? Page? Gibbons? Kossoff? Richrath? Green?

The point is, there is no one 59 PAF tone; the pickups varied tremendously. Some were overwound, some underwound, some had different wind patterns on each bobbin, or different amounts of wire on each bobbin. All these things have a huge effect on the pickup's sound.

For these reasons there are many, many choices of PAF replicants. Once you decide which tone you are looking for, then you can home in on specific models. Also, keep in mind the wood of the guitar has a tremendous effect on the final tone, as well.

It's difficult to say with certainty which pickup is best for a given guitar, it can take several tries to either find what you're looking for, or realize that guitar doesn't sound like what you hear in your head. With experience this becomes easier, but it's still a "try it and listen" approach most of the time, IMO.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Best PAF tone ???????

There are several PAF pickups in the Duncan line...depending on which PAF you want Im sure there is one for you. FWIW, in my 1982 Moderne I use a pair of Pearly Gates and love them and in my 58 reissue LP I use Antiquities and love them as well! I do like the alnico 5 PAF pickups (59's) but for me I have found I like the mids of alnico II better...

 

[Onslow]

Re: Best PAF tone ???????

Seth Lover

 

[cheezemaster]

Re: Best PAF tone ???????

yeah - there's lots of choices in the Duncan line.

Some folks like TGWIF like more of the A2 sound - like the Seth Lover and Pearly Gates. Personally I like the A5 sound of the '59.. theres also the Jazz and A2 Pros... lots of options.. none is "best" - just what works for you and your style of playing.. Sorry - I guess that's kind of a non-answer:smack:

 

[JLH]

Re: Best PAF tone ???????

Thanks to all, however, I am looking for the tone that most of these guitars specifically produced in some way I realize that wood technique etc... make a differnt however, When I here Billy Gibbons, Charlie Daniels, ABB and these other Southern rockers, It is very much the same, with the difference IMO: amplication and technique to name a few, So an example I guess would be the difference in the famous "GREENY" Les Paul and its tone when Peter Green Played -vs.- Gary Moore playing it, Same guitar, same guitar tone output, different results, So its just that Woody, double tone that I here in all of these guitars I am looking for. All of the famous guys have this tone despite there music such as Page -vs- Duane. I am just looking for help here and am sincere, do not want to create any debate

 

[Robbyk]

Re: Best PAF tone ???????

I thought debate was good?
Anyways, I like the pearly gates, I think Gibbons used these in his Les.
I of course like to play with the pickups ,( thanks to a certain member here), and experiment with magnets etc. to get a sound I want

 

[lemonman]

Re: Best PAF tone ???????

Double tone is mismatched coils; this is the Pearly Gates model you're talking about. Very southern rock; after all, they're modeled after Billy G's "Pearly Gates" 59 LP. The Antiquities are mismatched, too, but are smoother & more woody than the PG.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Best PAF tone ???????

antiquitys, pearly gates or seth lovers are my favorites

the antiquitys are really hard to beat in a les paul for classic paf tones

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Best PAF tone ???????

antiquitys, pearly gates or seth lovers are my favorites

the antiquitys are really hard to beat in a les paul for classic paf tones

Me too. And all three of those are alnico 2 pickups based on Seth Lover's original '55 design for the Gibson humbucker.

I do like the Duncan 59 too. It's also based on Seth's '55 design but with an alnico 5 magnet which Gibson switched to about 1959.

That's the tone you'll hear Clapton getting on the Bluesbreakers album...that's a '60 Les Paul and many '59 Les Pauls have those alnico 5 pafs too.

 

[theodie]

Re: Best PAF tone ???????

Double tone is mismatched coils; this is the Pearly Gates model you're talking about. Very southern rock; after all, they're modeled after Billy G's "Pearly Gates" 59 LP. The Antiquities are mismatched, too, but are smoother & more woody than the PG.

There is not enough of a mismatch in a PG to amount to a hill of beans of difference. I have had a few PG's and I measured one it is was only .04K different. Like I said, not enough to even make a difference and I am sure it is within factory + or - for standard pickups. As far as the mismatch, I am talking strictly DC resistance. Whether they use different wire in each of the coils, I dont know. As far as the Antiquity, I cant comment.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Best PAF tone ???????

and i doubt thats the case either. dimarzio has a patent on using two wire sizes.

 

[theodie]

Re: Best PAF tone ???????

and i doubt thats the case either. dimarzio has a patent on using two wire sizes.

I thought it probably was the same size wire but, just a different kind of wire. Maybe a different coating or a different material?

 

[jeremy]

Re: Best PAF tone ???????

id be really surprised if it was different types of wire. gibson used plain enamel 42 awg for a long time

 

[lemonman]

Re: Best PAF tone ???????

Mismatched means many things- wire gauge, insulation type, wind pattern and wind tension, total amount of wire, etc. We know from DC resistance the PG's mismatch isn't from the amount of wire, so it's clearly in one of the other areas.

 

[Bludave]

Re: Best PAF tone ???????

As far as PAF's go they are warm. Thats what most people describe real PAF's as..... Warm. To get a pickup to have the warmth of the real deal is hard, but out of the Duncan line I feel the closest to a real PAF is the Alnico II pros. In a recent comaprison we compared a bunch of Pickups to a set of real 59 PAF's. Heres what we compared.

Seth Lovers
Antiquities
Pearly Gates
Holmes
Alnico II pros
Burstbuckers
57 Classics.

Out of all the above probably the closest to the real PAF was the holmes in overall comparison. But I still feel the Alnico II was a warmer sounding pickup. The Holmes had a little more clarity and was a touch brighter, but it did not have the warmth of the real deal. The AII pro was closer I felt.

We did not swap them out of the same guitar, but the originals was a 54 Les Paul conversion and the other guitars were used simply because they were there. Most of these were Les Pauls, but I think the 57 classics were in a 335. So all in all it is really not a fair comparison considering we were comparing fairly new guitars with a vintage guitar. Even still I think all these pickups sounded real good, but the Alnico II
s sounded closer to the real PAF.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Best PAF tone ???????

and i doubt thats the case either. dimarzio has a patent on using two wire sizes.

The DiMarzio patent is pretty specific -- two coils with different wire gauges but (and here's the key) "substantially the same number of turns". Obviously there's some legal wiggle room with the word "substantially" but it's clear from what DM was going for with this design is a different sound that's still 100% humbucking or as close to it as you can get.

So my interpretation is that if you have a thousand more turns in one coil than the other, you're home-free with tons of room to spare.

Also, 0.04k difference between the coils totally insignificant. A coil DCR reading will shift more than that just from the warmth of your fingertips handling it for a few seconds. And if I recall correctly, Evan said there are no pu's in the Duncan line with mismatched coils. (Check me on that, Evan.)

 

[korus]

Re: Best PAF tone ???????

...
Also, 0.04k difference between the coils totally insignificant. A coil DCR reading will shift more than that just from the warmth of your fingertips handling it for a few seconds. And if I recall correctly, Evan said there are no pu's in the Duncan line with mismatched coils. (Check me on that, Evan.)

What would be significant difference? IIRC Fralin's unbuckers have much greater difference, but that would be for coil-cut purposes, right?

And which coil should be with greater DCR, neck-most for both neck and bridge?

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: Best PAF tone ???????

out of the 3 i've tried (59, pg, and jazz... it's PAF enough) i like the 59 best

i wanna get on the a2 train soon though, prolly try out some a2 pro's