Best Place to order a SG classic? and questions!

[LoFiBrian]

OK so my best friend let me play his Family owned since new in 1963 "1962 SG Special". Every once in awhile he lets me see what a dream it is to play.

-Classic White, Aluminum Wraparound(No Vibrola Stock!) and 2 perfect sounding p-90s.

A true Closet Classic!

So here i am, selling my Traynor to him and selling my lite ash to my sister to fund a SG classic...GAS!

-Are these a GC/MF exclusive guitar?
-Is the neck 59 rounded or a 60's taper?
-Current models have a Nashville right?
-Everyone I've seen was 2 pieces for the body. Anyone see any more than 2?
-Those plastic tuning pegs are they kluson style variants with diff keys or exactly like the old SG special pegs?
-Anyone have a Meter reading for these P-90s?
-Does the binding go over the fret ends?

If you own or have played one give me a review.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: Best Place to order a SG classic? and questions!

I can't answer any of your questions but the SG Classic is a hell of an instrument. I knew I wanted a gibson last year and had pretty much sold myself on a faded series, you know, affordable but quality...after putting down the faded yellow Les Paul Doublecut with P90's and picking up the SG Classic with those same P90's, there was just no contest man. The guitar was lightweight but heavy in tone, the neck reminded me of my friend's 59 Les Paul if that gives any indication of the shape. You can really get every possible tone you'd need between those two P90's and four knobs...crystal clear cleans and the gnarliest dirt you could ask for. I just love P90's under distortion...

I went home and tried to devise a tactic to get a non-faded Gibson SG with P90's since i was about $400 short of the SG Classic...saw the SG Junior they just recently blew out, back then it was $600...found a green SG-X on ebay for that price, scooped her up, and now SG-X's sell for $900...same price as the Classic. And the circle completes itself.

the SG-X may not have two P90's but since it's green it's even better. Gonna drop a P-Rails in there soon to try and get close to that P90 vibe, but I'm still GASing hard for an SG with two authentic P90's...

 

[uOpt]

Re: Best Place to order a SG classic? and questions!

The classic has a thin neck. The 63 vintage special might or might not have a thin neck, you got to be careful there. SGs also wildly differ in their neck joint

And in how they mount pickups. A pickguard held pickups sounds differently than a humbucker ring mounted pickup or one screwed into the wood. The classic definitely has dogears pickguard mounted. That's not what you are supposed to do with a P-90, the vintage one might have used soapbar mounts with screws into the wood.

The worst problem is probably the bridge, the vintage 63 probably had a LP junior style one-piece bridge, right? The SG classic has tone-o-mess and stop tailpiece, and the TOM is a nashville with these metal anchors in the wood. Definitely different from an ABR-1 mount directly into the wood.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: Best Place to order a SG classic? and questions!

The classic has a thin neck. The 63 vintage special might or might not have a thin neck, you got to be careful there. SGs also wildly differ in their neck joint

And in how they mount pickups. A pickguard held pickups sounds differently than a humbucker ring mounted pickup or one screwed into the wood. The classic definitely has dogears pickguard mounted. That's not what you are supposed to do with a P-90, the vintage one might have used soapbar mounts with screws into the wood.

The worst problem is probably the bridge, the vintage 63 probably had a LP junior style one-piece bridge, right? The SG classic has tone-o-mess and stop tailpiece, and the TOM is a nashville with these metal anchors in the wood. Definitely different from an ABR-1 mount directly into the wood.

Why / how would a pickup in a pickguard sound differently than a pickup in the wood? I've just never heard this theory before.

And the SG Juniors I mentioned in my previous post have those one-piece bridges, but i prefer a tune-o-matic myself...

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Best Place to order a SG classic? and questions!

Why / how would a pickup in a pickguard sound differently than a pickup in the wood? I've just never heard this theory before.

+1 on that question. What's up with that? How could tone/sound be affected by the way a pickup is mounted?
:smack:

 

[uOpt]

Re: Best Place to order a SG classic? and questions!

Why / how would a pickup in a pickguard sound differently than a pickup in the wood? I've just never heard this theory before.

And the SG Juniors I mentioned in my previous post have those one-piece bridges, but i prefer a tune-o-matic myself...

A pickguard-mounted pickup double wobbles. First it wobbles in it's screws and springs, and then the pickguard itself wobbles. These are tiny movements, sure, but (obviously) they are at frequencies the strings vibrate at and hence in hearable terrain.

The pickguard mount is a major reason why a Strat, even with a hardtail, doesn't sound like a Tele. The Tele has a three-screw mount into a metal plate that is the bridge. The Strat has a two-screw mount in a loosely held plastic pickguard. And a Tele neck pickup is supposed to be wood-mounted.

Of course that doesn't mean one or the other is better, but they are different.

Looking at some photos I see that a 63 Special has a 61 style small pickguard and wood-mounted soapbars. That's gonna make a difference compared to pickguard-mounted dogears even with same pickup inside.

Also, the real deal of P-90 mounts is screwing them in hard pickup baseplate to body wood (and use the screws for height adjustment)). Not the modern stuff with deep cavity and foam (puke) holding the pickup up against the longer screws.

I'd prefer the tone-o-matic, too, but the Nashville mount with metal anchros is different from the ABR-1 mount with posts screwed into the wood. How much? Probably not much if you have a decent quality bridge.

Don't understand me wrong, people love the SG classic, it's a great guitar. But don't blindly assume that one P-90 SG sounds like the next.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: Best Place to order a SG classic? and questions!

ahhh i see.

Admins: Can i get my screen name changed to 'Double Wobble'?

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Best Place to order a SG classic? and questions!

A pickguard-mounted pickup double wobbles. First it wobbles in it's screws and springs, and then the pickguard itself wobbles. These are tiny movements, sure, but (obviously) they are at frequencies the strings vibrate at and hence in hearable terrain.

The pickguard mount is a major reason why a Strat, even with a hardtail, doesn't sound like a Tele. The Tele has a three-screw mount into a metal plate that is the bridge. The Strat has a two-screw mount in a loosely held plastic pickguard. And a Tele neck pickup is supposed to be wood-mounted.

Of course that doesn't mean one or the other is better, but they are different.

Looking at some photos I see that a 63 Special has a 61 style small pickguard and wood-mounted soapbars. That's gonna make a difference compared to pickguard-mounted dogears even with same pickup inside.

Wobble? And so how exactly does that affect the tone? How does string vibration gets affected by "wobbling" of the pickup? Or vice versa? That's got to be A LOT of wobbling going on there to alter the sound being sensed by the pickup.

The reason why a Strat does not sound like a tele is simply because it is a completely different guitar design and not because of pickup mounting and such. Where the pickup is placed on the body of the guitar greatly affects how it would sound and not how it is mounted whether via pickguard, rings or directly to the body. I have never heard of tone being affected by how the pickup is mounted on a guitar.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: Best Place to order a SG classic? and questions!

I think the 'double wobble theory' holds a little ground because we're talking about strings vibrating to correct electrical frequencies. Electricity = electrons (subatomic particles -- VERY SMALL) moving from one atom to the next, so in theory a difference that seems incredibly small to us could have a huge impact.

If somebody could create an experiment to prove how much vibration goes through a pickguard vs. into the wood or something then we would know for sure. The Strat and Tele comparison is bad because of the differences in construction for sure -- we'd have to direct-mount a guitar then put a pickguard on the same guitar, which i think would require routing?

I dunno all this tone theorizing gets kinda pointless eventually...I always remind myself not to stress that stuff and concentrate on rocking :smokin:

so i guess you gotta ask yourself: are the slight 'modern' upgrades used to make the SG Classic as affordable as it is going to keep you from rocking a nice SG with decent P90's?

 

[scottish]

Re: Best Place to order a SG classic? and questions!

The pickguard mount is a major reason why a Strat, even with a hardtail, doesn't sound like a Tele. The Tele has a three-screw mount into a metal plate that is the bridge. The Strat has a two-screw mount in a loosely held plastic pickguard. And a Tele neck pickup is supposed to be wood-mounted.

im not 100% sold on that. i played a strat for a while that had body mounted pups and was rear-routed so no pickguard....still sounded like a strat and def didnt have the twang of a tele

 

[these_go211]

Re: Best Place to order a SG classic? and questions!

sorry i can't answer your questions but i will chime in to say you will be 1,000% satisfied with the SG classic. it's the only guitar i've ever bought without first laying my hands on it to try out. the p90s are screamers! everything about the guitar is perfect: tone, looks, playability. and since i bought mine 3 years ago i got it for $650! good times!

actually i realize now i can answer one of your questions. my guitar has a 3 piece body. i think that is more common that the 2 piece ones you have seen. someone correct me if i'm wrong though.

 

[DazH]

Re: Best Place to order a SG classic? and questions!

doesnt mounting to the wood just make it sound a bit fatter i.e more body? I mean, if you stuck a pickup right in the bottom of an acoustic where all the resonance and "boomy"ness is, it'd sounds pretty fat. same theory, just a smaller hole I guess?

 

[uOpt]

Re: Best Place to order a SG classic? and questions!

Wobble? And so how exactly does that affect the tone? How does string vibration gets affected by "wobbling" of the pickup? Or vice versa? That's got to be A LOT of wobbling going on there to alter the sound being sensed by the pickup.

The whole guitar is vibrating and putting the equivalent of a dampener into the pickup mount, of two such dampeners, creates movement of the pickup, and that movement is vibarations around the frequencies at which the strings vibrate.

Technical speaking, it is not that the pickups moves relative to the planet. It's that the pickups do not strictly move with the rest of the guitar as they would with a harder mount.

But either way, that creates a movement of pickups relative to the strings and that does change the wavesforms that the pickups pick up. The movement of the pickup intensifies some frequencies and lowers others.

There is no question that this "theory" is true. There is a question whether this is audible, or whether it is audible in isolation.

It's hard to measure the actual movement without some extensive equipment, you'd probably need a laser, mirrors and a high-frequency optical diode.

The reason why a Strat does not sound like a tele is simply because it is a completely different guitar design and not because of pickup mounting and such. Where the pickup is placed on the body of the guitar greatly affects how it would sound and not how it is mounted whether via pickguard, rings or directly to the body. I have never heard of tone being affected by how the pickup is mounted on a guitar.

Then you didn't read forums enough yet.

Relative movement of pickups, and even parts of the pickup, do change the sound. They must. You can't have relative movement in the 80-8000 Hz range without that movement changing the sound. The pickup picks up the movement of the strings relative to it's own position.

The major difference between a Tele and a hardtail Strat is the bridge mounted pickup. The form of the body is what is irrelevant, it is in the noise of body-to-body variations from wood quality.

Note that I do not say whether any of this is better than the other.

 

[Pink Unicorn Horsey]

Re: Best Place to order a SG classic? and questions!

Here's my SG Classic:

His name is Fenrisulfr, and he's just awesome to play! I've had him for a few months now -- got him at Guitar Center. Feels great in the hands, very articulate sound, and real balls.

- Keith

 

[LoFiBrian]

Re: Best Place to order a SG classic? and questions!

Here's my SG Classic:

His name is Fenrisulfr, and he's just awesome to play! I've had him for a few months now -- got him at Guitar Center. Feels great in the hands, very articulate sound, and real balls.

- Keith

looks like a slightly off center towards the treble side seemed 2 piece to me?

 

[Pink Unicorn Horsey]

Re: Best Place to order a SG classic? and questions!

looks like a slightly off center towards the treble side seemed 2 piece to me?

Sorry, not following you.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Best Place to order a SG classic? and questions!

The whole guitar is vibrating and putting the equivalent of a dampener into the pickup mount, of two such dampeners, creates movement of the pickup, and that movement is vibarations around the frequencies at which the strings vibrate.

Technical speaking, it is not that the pickups moves relative to the planet. It's that the pickups do not strictly move with the rest of the guitar as they would with a harder mount.

But either way, that creates a movement of pickups relative to the strings and that does change the wavesforms that the pickups pick up. The movement of the pickup intensifies some frequencies and lowers others.

There is no question that this "theory" is true. There is a question whether this is audible, or whether it is audible in isolation.

It's hard to measure the actual movement without some extensive equipment, you'd probably need a laser, mirrors and a high-frequency optical diode.

And there you go, so there's a question whether it's audible or not. So in reality a human ear can barely hear the difference or not hear any difference at all. In real playing situations, how can a player hear the difference? And yes, even if this "theory" is true if one can't hear it, why does it matter in the first place?

Then you didn't read forums enough yet.

Why would I read the forums for that? It's not rocket science. I've just rejoined the forum. I've been a member of this forum since the very fisrt ever SD message board back in the day.

Relative movement of pickups, and even parts of the pickup, do change the sound. They must. You can't have relative movement in the 80-8000 Hz range without that movement changing the sound. The pickup picks up the movement of the strings relative to it's own position.

The major difference between a Tele and a hardtail Strat is the bridge mounted pickup. The form of the body is what is irrelevant, it is in the noise of body-to-body variations from wood quality.

Note that I do not say whether any of this is better than the other.

I still do not agree on that. The difference between the Tele and the Strat is they are completely different guitars! And yes the bridges are different. And so that is why a Strat can not sound like a Tele.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Best Place to order a SG classic? and questions!

I dunno all this tone theorizing gets kinda pointless eventually...I always remind myself not to stress that stuff and concentrate on rocking :smokin:

I couldn't agree more. I think the time we're wasting theorizing and analyzing stuff that doesn't help us to be a better player we can just spend on playing and practicing our chops.

so i guess you gotta ask yourself: are the slight 'modern' upgrades used to make the SG Classic as affordable as it is going to keep you from rocking a nice SG with decent P90's?

Nope, not at all. If it sounds good and plays good, it's good! That's all what matters.

 

[Pink Unicorn Horsey]

Re: Best Place to order a SG classic? and questions!

I dunno all this tone theorizing gets kinda pointless eventually...I always remind myself not to stress that stuff and concentrate on rocking :smokin:

I couldn't agree more. I think the time we're wasting theorizing and analyzing stuff that doesn't help us to be a better player we can just spend on playing and practicing our chops.

so i guess you gotta ask yourself: are the slight 'modern' upgrades used to make the SG Classic as affordable as it is going to keep you from rocking a nice SG with decent P90's?

Nope, not at all. If it sounds good and plays good, it's good! That's all what matters.

I agree on all these points. When I pick up that SG and plug it into any of my amps, I stop caring about the finer points and just rock.

It feels right. It sounds right. It is right.

- Keith

 

[LoFiBrian]

Re: Best Place to order a SG classic? and questions!

Sorry, not following you.

howmany pieces is your body based on the seams in the woodgrain?