Best wood for smooth, fat sounding cab
- Thread starter cream123
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the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Best wood for smooth, fat sounding cab
Not to come off like a jerk but I think you are thinking about this whole thing the wrong way...
The size of a cab, the speakers, the wood used, the construction, etc...all these thngs will change hte tone of a cab but there is no magical kind of wood that will make a 10 or a 12 sound like a 15
If you like the sound of 15's use 15's and while you're at it use the best kinds of materals you can find and afford.
For speaker cabs Im partial to nice finger jointed pine cabs with floating plywood baffle boards however a nice plywood cab with a "fixed" or non floating baffle sounds great too...
Not to come off like a jerk but I think you are thinking about this whole thing the wrong way...
The size of a cab, the speakers, the wood used, the construction, etc...all these thngs will change hte tone of a cab but there is no magical kind of wood that will make a 10 or a 12 sound like a 15
If you like the sound of 15's use 15's and while you're at it use the best kinds of materals you can find and afford.
For speaker cabs Im partial to nice finger jointed pine cabs with floating plywood baffle boards however a nice plywood cab with a "fixed" or non floating baffle sounds great too...
cream123
JustAskinologist
Re: Best wood for smooth, fat sounding cab
Coolio.
I'll have to look into the design of these cabs a little more.
Coolio.
I'll have to look into the design of these cabs a little more.
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Best wood for smooth, fat sounding cab
Let me ask...what are you looking for out of a cab???
Let me ask...what are you looking for out of a cab???
cream123
JustAskinologist
Re: Best wood for smooth, fat sounding cab
I'm looking for a fat, smooth, warm sound. I think that means stronger in the lower mids/upper bass frequencies as far as guitar goes. less treble.....not too little though - I want to be able to turn the treble up on the amp and still get a more trebley sound. Thanks
I'm looking for a fat, smooth, warm sound. I think that means stronger in the lower mids/upper bass frequencies as far as guitar goes. less treble.....not too little though - I want to be able to turn the treble up on the amp and still get a more trebley sound. Thanks
d1dsj
Cornographer
Re: Best wood for smooth, fat sounding cab
Check out this guy, www.mongotone.co.uk ... he makes great great cabs that sound fat, smooth and warm. He uses the best materials and they are pure class... here's a pic of mine.
Check out this guy, www.mongotone.co.uk ... he makes great great cabs that sound fat, smooth and warm. He uses the best materials and they are pure class... here's a pic of mine.
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Best wood for smooth, fat sounding cab
There are several speakers that you could use. The first 2 that come to mind for me are EV's in general, EV's are known for a lot of lows and low mids but still having a good top end w/o being shrill. I am fan of the alnico magnet SRO's from the 60's and 70's but they cost a LOT and are hard to find.
Another one is the original style 55 Hz cone G12H30 (NOT to be confused with the new G12H30 which is simply a heavy magnet greenback!) however those are hard to find as well and also costly.
If you wanted something like an old H30 you could go with Heritage G12H30 from Celestion, Scumbacks H55 or you could go with Weber 1230-55. Those are all 3 based on a pre rola 55 Hz cone G12H30.
On the EV front you can still get an EVM 12L style speaker new from EV or if you look around you can still find some older ones from the 70's or 80's for not too much cash, Weber also makes a version of those as well as the alnico style SRO, but I think you'd dig the ceramic EVM12L style better.
Some other speakers out there that have a strong low mid character are Celestion Classic Lead 80's and Mesa Black Shadow 90's (which are based on the classic lead 80's)
Another speaker that comes to mind are old HiWatt era Fanes...they are hard to find and cost a mint when you can get them but they sound killer and have very strong lows and low mids...Weber is also making a clone of them as well.
Also, look into the new Eminence line they have clones of the H30's, Fanes as well as a few other spekaers they puch a lot of lows/low mids and the price of the new Emeinence is real hard to beat!
There are several speakers that you could use. The first 2 that come to mind for me are EV's in general, EV's are known for a lot of lows and low mids but still having a good top end w/o being shrill. I am fan of the alnico magnet SRO's from the 60's and 70's but they cost a LOT and are hard to find.
Another one is the original style 55 Hz cone G12H30 (NOT to be confused with the new G12H30 which is simply a heavy magnet greenback!) however those are hard to find as well and also costly.
If you wanted something like an old H30 you could go with Heritage G12H30 from Celestion, Scumbacks H55 or you could go with Weber 1230-55. Those are all 3 based on a pre rola 55 Hz cone G12H30.
On the EV front you can still get an EVM 12L style speaker new from EV or if you look around you can still find some older ones from the 70's or 80's for not too much cash, Weber also makes a version of those as well as the alnico style SRO, but I think you'd dig the ceramic EVM12L style better.
Some other speakers out there that have a strong low mid character are Celestion Classic Lead 80's and Mesa Black Shadow 90's (which are based on the classic lead 80's)
Another speaker that comes to mind are old HiWatt era Fanes...they are hard to find and cost a mint when you can get them but they sound killer and have very strong lows and low mids...Weber is also making a clone of them as well.
Also, look into the new Eminence line they have clones of the H30's, Fanes as well as a few other spekaers they puch a lot of lows/low mids and the price of the new Emeinence is real hard to beat!
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Re: Best wood for smooth, fat sounding cab
If you're gonna do an open back the solid Pine suggestions are on top for those sizes. I think Pine adds a "crispness" to the sound. If you choose a closed back, and/or larger unit go for a 'void free' Baltic Birch-Ply. For the baffle I'd try and stay the same, solid Pine with the Pine cab, or solid Birch with the Birch-Ply cab. There is a boutique amp maker named Vintone that seems to use Oak a lot, as well as other hardwoods. I've never dealt with them, but I imagine if you contact them with questions concerning wood types and different tones they may give a bunch of ideas for you.
If you're gonna do an open back the solid Pine suggestions are on top for those sizes. I think Pine adds a "crispness" to the sound. If you choose a closed back, and/or larger unit go for a 'void free' Baltic Birch-Ply. For the baffle I'd try and stay the same, solid Pine with the Pine cab, or solid Birch with the Birch-Ply cab. There is a boutique amp maker named Vintone that seems to use Oak a lot, as well as other hardwoods. I've never dealt with them, but I imagine if you contact them with questions concerning wood types and different tones they may give a bunch of ideas for you.
cream123
JustAskinologist
Re: Best wood for smooth, fat sounding cab
Thanks for all the info
I've been eyeing those eminences lately. Cooln stuff
Thanks for the heads up and the suggestions.
Thanks for all the info
I've been eyeing those eminences lately. Cooln stuff
Thanks for the heads up and the suggestions.
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Best wood for smooth, fat sounding cab
FWIW, I would never use a pine baffle and to my ears the biggest advantage of a solid pine cab vs say birtch plywood is the resonance at almost any volume level...
Also, hardwoods are not the way to go IMO...they don't have the resonance of pine and are very hard and cold sounding...
FWIW, I would never use a pine baffle and to my ears the biggest advantage of a solid pine cab vs say birtch plywood is the resonance at almost any volume level...
Also, hardwoods are not the way to go IMO...they don't have the resonance of pine and are very hard and cold sounding...
Sludgenutz
New member
Re: Best wood for smooth, fat sounding cab
Cream, the knock on 15's is perhaps best decribed as a "tubby" tone (not tube-y
). After a while, you may find there's a missing element in the tone...perhaps lacking musical focus/thrust. You might start pumping the Watts to the cab, and you might strain to get any life from the highs. 15's use heavy/thick cone material, and may not ever have the lively-ness/focus of a smaller speaker. Speaker cones support the voice coil, and the heavier paper cones are needed to keep the voice coil from rubbing against the magnet's pole, as they move/heat-up/dimensionally distort.
I dig the heck out of EVM12L's. They are not for everyone (some say they are sterile, and I would not argue), but they keep their composure from low levels, to blasting loud, even in an open back cab.
Let's face it...musician's can be such egomaniacs! If sporting 15" speakers did the job (or even looked just-cool-enough to get by), more players would be using them, just for the "mine is bigger than yours" factor. Randall has an interesting 2x12/1x15 cab for metal downtuners, but this is a rather new concept.
You might want to decide on the amp first, then use the speaker/cab combo to get the most return for your musical direction.
Cream, the knock on 15's is perhaps best decribed as a "tubby" tone (not tube-y
). After a while, you may find there's a missing element in the tone...perhaps lacking musical focus/thrust. You might start pumping the Watts to the cab, and you might strain to get any life from the highs. 15's use heavy/thick cone material, and may not ever have the lively-ness/focus of a smaller speaker. Speaker cones support the voice coil, and the heavier paper cones are needed to keep the voice coil from rubbing against the magnet's pole, as they move/heat-up/dimensionally distort.I dig the heck out of EVM12L's. They are not for everyone (some say they are sterile, and I would not argue), but they keep their composure from low levels, to blasting loud, even in an open back cab.
Let's face it...musician's can be such egomaniacs! If sporting 15" speakers did the job (or even looked just-cool-enough to get by), more players would be using them, just for the "mine is bigger than yours" factor. Randall has an interesting 2x12/1x15 cab for metal downtuners, but this is a rather new concept.
You might want to decide on the amp first, then use the speaker/cab combo to get the most return for your musical direction.
Sludgenutz
New member
Re: Best wood for smooth, fat sounding cab
Very cool...just as a good solid top acoustic guitar sounds lively and sweet, and plywood tops are strong, but dead in comparison...it's amazing how few species of wood are used for tops besides spruce and cedar for acoustic guitar tops.
I have concrete fingers, so a pine box does me better on my way to see St. Peter. :laugh2:
Cream, just for giggles, here is a pic of what voidless (no holes on the end-grain), marine quality (the glues resist extreme moisture), birch plywood looks like:
The above is the backpanel from my vertical Recto's jackplate cavity.
Very cool...just as a good solid top acoustic guitar sounds lively and sweet, and plywood tops are strong, but dead in comparison...it's amazing how few species of wood are used for tops besides spruce and cedar for acoustic guitar tops.
I have concrete fingers, so a pine box does me better on my way to see St. Peter. :laugh2:
Cream, just for giggles, here is a pic of what voidless (no holes on the end-grain), marine quality (the glues resist extreme moisture), birch plywood looks like:
The above is the backpanel from my vertical Recto's jackplate cavity.
d1dsj
Cornographer
Re: Best wood for smooth, fat sounding cab
I can't really comment about pine cabinets, but I CAN comment on Mahogony ones! My Mongotone cab replaced a Trad. Recto cab because the Recto was Harsh and directional by comparison. The Mongotone Mahogony cab is VERY resonant, warm and loud. The spread of sound is simply awesome... it nearly has the same bass response as the recto, but much sweeter highs and it cuts through the mix. The bonus is that the rest of the band can hear me (without me having to be much louder than them as with the recto)... oh, and the really good thing... it doesn't break your back.. it's a 4 x 10!! It's not going to be prone to splitting or dents like a pine cab either.. it's finished in Nitro so will age like my L.P's. The ONLY down side is that it is just too nice ... my band mates bring vases and ornaments when I use it! Lol... I have an old Orange 4 x 12 with greenbacks and a Cornford 4 x 12 with V30's... both great, but the 4 x 10 sounds the sweetest and has the best spread of sound! I'm not saying it sounds better than a pine cab as I haven't tried one, but I am saying it is NOT dark or cold sounding. Lots of guitars are made of Mahogony... I've never seen a pine guitar? Just my opinion.
I can't really comment about pine cabinets, but I CAN comment on Mahogony ones! My Mongotone cab replaced a Trad. Recto cab because the Recto was Harsh and directional by comparison. The Mongotone Mahogony cab is VERY resonant, warm and loud. The spread of sound is simply awesome... it nearly has the same bass response as the recto, but much sweeter highs and it cuts through the mix. The bonus is that the rest of the band can hear me (without me having to be much louder than them as with the recto)... oh, and the really good thing... it doesn't break your back.. it's a 4 x 10!! It's not going to be prone to splitting or dents like a pine cab either.. it's finished in Nitro so will age like my L.P's. The ONLY down side is that it is just too nice ... my band mates bring vases and ornaments when I use it! Lol... I have an old Orange 4 x 12 with greenbacks and a Cornford 4 x 12 with V30's... both great, but the 4 x 10 sounds the sweetest and has the best spread of sound! I'm not saying it sounds better than a pine cab as I haven't tried one, but I am saying it is NOT dark or cold sounding. Lots of guitars are made of Mahogony... I've never seen a pine guitar? Just my opinion.
Re: Best wood for smooth, fat sounding cab
You've never played a 1 9/16" thick 'sugar pine' Telecaster?!
mg: Oh man you haven't lived.
Really though, pine telecasters are da bomb. The Fender CS has made 3 different runs of the original sized pine body teles: the prototype 'snakehead,' a small batch of thin black nitro covered "Esquires," like the model that was introduced at NAMM with a neck pickup (way back when), and a Two-Toned Sunburst (that I'm more familiar with), all have had a Super THICK qtr-sawn maple neck with no truss rod at all. Those guitars sing! The necks are solid too.
I have an old Stella acoustic for delta based blues, made of a pine body with some crystalized sap in it visible from the sound hole, super sized mumbo jumbo neck like a biggie fries, and.... no truss rod either. To top it off it's fretboard markers are spray painted on with a stencil, and there is no fretboard, the frets are laid directly into the neck. It sounds like a mess, but it is one sweet toned, parlour sized, cheap guitar. It's got a distinct voice too. But it doesn't sound near as good as an 1896 12-fret Washburn 00 Parlour guitar I played once just a few years ago for a few hours in Durango of all places. It had a very nice mumbo jumbo hard 'V' mahogany neck, a very seasoned brazilian rosewood back and sides, topped with a qtr swan spruce top. Well, actually all of the wood was definitely seasoned on that beautiful guitar. Oh yeah, it was "Heaven" in a guitar too. I will never forget that thing, ever... It was also the same day, and first time that I played a Sunrise Acoustic Pickup. Sweet stuff. An amazing moment for sure.
Oops, my mistake when I mentioned the solid pine baffle screwed to a solid pine cab. As the guy who invented fire mentioned it wouldn't be the best idea. A solid birch baffle with a solid pine cab is a really nice match though.
BTW, d1dsj, that is a nice looking cab. As a solid Mahogany cab coated in nitro with 4-10s, it sounds truly decadent. I imagine that the sound of it is just that.
You've never played a 1 9/16" thick 'sugar pine' Telecaster?!
mg: Oh man you haven't lived.Really though, pine telecasters are da bomb. The Fender CS has made 3 different runs of the original sized pine body teles: the prototype 'snakehead,' a small batch of thin black nitro covered "Esquires," like the model that was introduced at NAMM with a neck pickup (way back when), and a Two-Toned Sunburst (that I'm more familiar with), all have had a Super THICK qtr-sawn maple neck with no truss rod at all. Those guitars sing! The necks are solid too.
I have an old Stella acoustic for delta based blues, made of a pine body with some crystalized sap in it visible from the sound hole, super sized mumbo jumbo neck like a biggie fries, and.... no truss rod either. To top it off it's fretboard markers are spray painted on with a stencil, and there is no fretboard, the frets are laid directly into the neck. It sounds like a mess, but it is one sweet toned, parlour sized, cheap guitar. It's got a distinct voice too. But it doesn't sound near as good as an 1896 12-fret Washburn 00 Parlour guitar I played once just a few years ago for a few hours in Durango of all places. It had a very nice mumbo jumbo hard 'V' mahogany neck, a very seasoned brazilian rosewood back and sides, topped with a qtr swan spruce top. Well, actually all of the wood was definitely seasoned on that beautiful guitar. Oh yeah, it was "Heaven" in a guitar too. I will never forget that thing, ever... It was also the same day, and first time that I played a Sunrise Acoustic Pickup. Sweet stuff. An amazing moment for sure.
Oops, my mistake when I mentioned the solid pine baffle screwed to a solid pine cab. As the guy who invented fire mentioned it wouldn't be the best idea. A solid birch baffle with a solid pine cab is a really nice match though.
BTW, d1dsj, that is a nice looking cab. As a solid Mahogany cab coated in nitro with 4-10s, it sounds truly decadent. I imagine that the sound of it is just that.
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d1dsj
Cornographer
Re: Best wood for smooth, fat sounding cab
Man, this huimble pie doesn't taste very good! Lol:boggled: Sorry guys, I honestly have never heard of a high end/ branded pine guitar! Shameful I know... and there's me thinking I know a little about guitars?
My point about the wood though was for a warm, fat sound .. Mahogony (or mine at least) fills the criteria that cream123 asked. I imagine, and again I don't know, that pine would be brighter than mahogony?
KeyOfG. Thanks.. yeah it's a very sweet cab.. very deceiving when you look at it 'coz you wouldn't think it could sound so BIG and warm. The good thing is miot never gets flabby.. always tight. Only problem is I only use at nicer venues 'coz it's too darn nice. My mates ask me where the sideboard is when I don't take it! Lol.
CREAM123 I'm sure that CELTIC also make mahogony cabs to match their amps? You have so many good amp/ cab designers/ builders over there I would contact several to see if they can enlighten you.
Now, back to that pie.........:grumble:
You've never played a 1 9/16" thick 'sugar pine' Telecaster?!
Really though, pine telecasters are da bomb. The Fender CS has made 3 different runs of the original sized pine body teles: the prototype 'snakehead,' a small batch of thin black nitro covered "Esquires," like the model that was introduced at NAMM with a neck pickup (way back when), and a Two-Toned Sunburst (that I'm more familiar with), all have had a Super THICK qtr-sawn maple neck with no truss rod at all. Those guitars sing! The necks are solid too.
BTW, d1dsj, that is a nice looking cab. As a solid Mahogany cab coated in nitro with 4-10s, it sounds truly decadent. I imagine that the sound of it is just that.
Man, this huimble pie doesn't taste very good! Lol:boggled: Sorry guys, I honestly have never heard of a high end/ branded pine guitar! Shameful I know... and there's me thinking I know a little about guitars?
My point about the wood though was for a warm, fat sound .. Mahogony (or mine at least) fills the criteria that cream123 asked. I imagine, and again I don't know, that pine would be brighter than mahogony?
KeyOfG. Thanks.. yeah it's a very sweet cab.. very deceiving when you look at it 'coz you wouldn't think it could sound so BIG and warm. The good thing is miot never gets flabby.. always tight. Only problem is I only use at nicer venues 'coz it's too darn nice. My mates ask me where the sideboard is when I don't take it! Lol.
CREAM123 I'm sure that CELTIC also make mahogony cabs to match their amps? You have so many good amp/ cab designers/ builders over there I would contact several to see if they can enlighten you.
Now, back to that pie.........:grumble:
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Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: Best wood for smooth, fat sounding cab
EHX made pine cabs for their amps.
Never heard a more nice 4x12 cab in my life.
Pine or ply Birch....the rest is just pretty stuff, Pine is also used in some highend HI-FI speaker cabs
EHX made pine cabs for their amps.
Never heard a more nice 4x12 cab in my life.
Pine or ply Birch....the rest is just pretty stuff, Pine is also used in some highend HI-FI speaker cabs
