Beyond Major and Minor Penatonics

[Frantic_Rock]

Re: Beyond Major and Minor Penatonics

I think as a rock guitar player you should know these scales all over the neck and know their roots, 3rds, 5ths, 7ths:

Major/Minor pentatonics
The 7 modes
Blues scale

For a jazz guitar player, you should know all remaining scales as well.

Melodic minor and its 7 modes
Harmonic minor and its 7 modes
Symmetrical scales (Diminished half/whole, whole tone)

In addition to that, you should know a set of bar form chords or some chord systems on differet string sets. Something I"m working on myself right now. And offcourse arpeggios.

One of the most important techniques when playing any kind of solo is CHORD TONE TARGETING. Meaning you end every phrase on strong beats on either root, 3rd, 5th, or 7th degree. Once you get good, you can also end on the 9th, maj/min 6th. This creates the effect that every phrase you play is complete and planned out.

Thanks

 

[Frantic_Rock]

Re: Beyond Major and Minor Penatonics

I recommend all following videos on RHS and Hotlicks:

Joe pass - Jazz lines
Joe pass - Solo Jazz Guitar
Scott Henderson - Jazz Improvisation
Scott Henderson - Melodic Phrasing
Paul Gilbert - everything
Eric Johnson - Fine art 1,2, Total Electric Guitar

Scott Henderson REALLY opened my eyes up on how to tie in theory and phrasing. He emphasizes that phrasing is the most important thing, and teaches you how to make up meaningful musical paragraphs for the listener.

 

[Bob Zombie]

Re: Beyond Major and Minor Penatonics

I think as a rock guitar player you should know these scales all over the neck and know their roots, 3rds, 5ths, 7ths:

Major/Minor pentatonics
The 7 modes
Blues scale

For a jazz guitar player, you should know all remaining scales as well.

Melodic minor and its 7 modes
Harmonic minor and its 7 modes
Symmetrical scales (Diminished half/whole, whole tone)

In addition to that, you should know a set of bar form chords or some chord systems on differet string sets. Something I"m working on myself right now. And offcourse arpeggios.

One of the most important techniques when playing any kind of solo is CHORD TONE TARGETING. Meaning you end every phrase on strong beats on either root, 3rd, 5th, or 7th degree. Once you get good, you can also end on the 9th, maj/min 6th. This creates the effect that every phrase you play is complete and planned out.

Thanks

In addition to those scales I find myself using a lot of umm...."ethnic" scales. Like the Iwato, Hirajoshi, Hindu, and Gypsy scales. But thats getting a little bit out there lol. I think learning the theory before you break rules is the best way. Because then when your breaking the rules so to speak you understand why its breaking the rules and how to use the sound that it makes musically. For centuries composers have pounded the major and minor scales into the brains of western audiences. So its pretty easy to write a riff or something that is pretty catchy even though its "incorrect". I suppose it sounds good because you wouldn't expecting hearing the guitar player of a rock band using a scale like the Hindu scale or the Kumoi scale or the Mongolian scale.

Also to clear up what I had said earlier passing tones are in the key but if you say they are chromatic that would mean that they can be out of the key. Its just a technicality but I was just trying to prevent you any confusion. lol

 

[Guitar Toad]

Re: Beyond Major and Minor Penatonics

I definitely want to explore the use of other scales such as Chinese and middle eastern music into my playing.

 

[Guitar Toad]

Re: Beyond Major and Minor Penatonics

I think as a rock guitar player you should know these scales all over the neck and know their roots, 3rds, 5ths, 7ths:

Major/Minor pentatonics
The 7 modes
Blues scale

For a jazz guitar player, you should know all remaining scales as well.

Melodic minor and its 7 modes
Harmonic minor and its 7 modes
Symmetrical scales (Diminished half/whole, whole tone)

In addition to that, you should know a set of bar form chords or some chord systems on differet string sets. Something I"m working on myself right now. And offcourse arpeggios.

One of the most important techniques when playing any kind of solo is CHORD TONE TARGETING. Meaning you end every phrase on strong beats on either root, 3rd, 5th, or 7th degree. Once you get good, you can also end on the 9th, maj/min 6th. This creates the effect that every phrase you play is complete and planned out.

Thanks

Thanks Frantic_Rock. Chord tone targeting. I've seen SeaFoamer discuss this. That may be a great thing for me to focus on recognizing chord tones and end phrases as you suggest.

Thanks for your great suggestions I'll check out those Scott Henderson teaching materials.

I think I have discovered the biggest disconnect in my thinking...Pentatonic Modes. Major and minor are derived from the modes (ionian and aeolian modes) of the major scales.

I had been trying to assign mode/tonality names by constructing modes directly from the pentatonic scales.

 

[Frantic_Rock]

Re: Beyond Major and Minor Penatonics

I think the other pentatonic modes are:

Lets say the example is in A major pentatonic.

If you start with Gb - its Gb minor pentatonic
If you start with A - its A major pentatonic
If you start with the next note in the scale (B) - you get B Dorian pentatonic.
This pentatonic has a 9th (or 2nd) instead of the minor third. Can sound pretty interesting over a minor chord.

If you start with the next note in the scale (Db) - you get Db phrygian pentatonic. This pentatonic has a minor 6th instead of a 5th. The lack of the 5th - sounds pretty suspended. But that minor 6th sound can be cool sometimes over a minor chord.

If you start with the next note in the scale (E) - you get an E mixolydian pentatonic. This one turns out to be pretty cool, because it has no 3rd. It only has root, 2nd, 4th, 5th, and major 6th. So theoretically it can be played over a major, dominant or minor chords( without a minor 6th).

Try playing these pentatonics over the root notes. Its a matter of experimentation. Actually these can prove useful. Lets say you're playing over B minor pentatonic: you can immediately use these pentatonics to improv: B minor pent, B dorian pent, B phrygian pent, and B mixolydian pent.

Let me know how it goes.

 

[gordon_39422]

Re: Beyond Major and Minor Penatonics

One more tool to throw in the mix is called the CAGED system. If you look at the major chords, there are only 5 patterns that we use, and the remaining two are bar chords from one of the 5. To elaborate, If you were playing the C amjor chord, the first place it can be located on the neck (moving from the nut to the bridge, of course) is on the 5th string at the 3rd fret. This pattern of the chord is the C pattern. The next place the C Major chord will occur is at the same fret on the 5th string, but you would barre the strings at the 3rd fret and play an A major pattern in relation to the barre; hence the A-pattern. The next place the C occurs is at the 8th fret on the 6th string. barre the 5th fret and play the G-pattern with the root on the 8th. I'll leave the last 2 for you to discover. Why is this useful? The pattern is moveable to other chords/keys. I would definitely avoid the pitfalls of block patterns, but when learning, it is useful to observe and understand the inherrent relationship of these patterns to their theoretical cointerparts. Hope this helps some....

BTW, I love the analogies with the hammers and such.... I used to hate learning theory and wondered what it had to do with modern music... Finally it all clicked and now I can hear progressions in my head and identify at least the relative progressions in terms of intervals...

Oh yeah, while you are learning these new scales and modes, try to throw in the intervals... As some have used for reference, the number and quality are important factors in learning. Especially since the intervallic relationship is similar in the other keys.....

Enjoy!!
Allen

 

[Guitar Toad]

Is this a sign of progress?

Is this a sign of progress?

I have a lot of work to do. Thanks guys.