Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

67Mopar

New member
In regards to speaker cabinet construction in my "SLO Effects Loop" thread, I decided that this may be worthy point of discussion in a new thread. Here goes...

Per my experience, cabinet resonating can be a good thing. It is most certainly part of what makes the old tweed combo amplifiers so special. Fender vintage tweeds were built using old growth pine which is no longer available. 99.9% of pine cabinets today are made from new growth pine slabs. New growth pine adds a overly prominent signature contour, that cannot be simply dialed-out with an EQ. You can improve conditions, but there will always be a prominent level of resonating effect. To my ears, new growth pine can sound fabulous, as long as the gain and volume are kept in-check. Note: Injecting a pine cabinet with intense levels preamp distortion is like putting catsup on a hotdog... "Nobody, and I mean nobody, puts catsup on hotdog!" IMO, nothing kills tone as uniquely as excessive preamp distortion.

I prefer little to no resonating effect, in both cabinets and most electric guitars. I suppose the best example of resonating effect in a guitar, is to consider the sound of a Les Paul vs an Explorer. The LP uses a maple cap which lessens resonating effect, thereby reflecting most of the sound into the pickups. The Explorer all mahogany body absorbs more of the vibration, giving the guitar a milder, softer, more "squished" type sound. The way to balance this, is to use a thinner maple cap over the mahogany slab body (or) go with a thinner mahogany body. If you really want a smooth yet articulate lead tone, a Gibson SG will get you there. Take a listen to Steve Hunter's lead intro tone on Aerosmith's Train Kep't A Rollin... IMO, that is a perfectly balanced lead tone. Steve Hunter used a vintage SG w/P90 pickups for that recording session.

My point is this... Whether it's a cabinet or guitar, woods matter! Before you go modding your amp, before you replace your pickups, try playing through a selection of cabinets first. Try alternate speakers as well. Sometimes the best modification is finding the right speaker for your particular cabinet, and adding a 1/3 octave EQ to fine-tune the tone to your ears.
 
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Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

Old growth pine is wideky available as "reclaimed lumber" afaik
 
Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

Awesome, now there’s a tonewood thread in the amp section too lol
 
Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

Back when I ate hot dogs and ketchup, I would regularly put the two together.

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Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

Yep, I used to put ketchup on hot dogs too. And if I ever eat another hot dog, I will ketchup it too.

Maybe speaker cabinets just need to be finished with ketchup ...
 
Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

I usually don’t put ketchup in hot dogs because I’m more of a mustard only guy. Last week I thought I’d give it a try and I realized how much I’ve been missing out.


How loud does it need to be before the kind of pine makes a difference?
 
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Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

I'm currently working on "how finish effects tone" thread as well. Stay tuned... :alcoholic:smokin:
 
Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

IMO, nothing kills tone as uniquely as excessive preamp distortion.
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Almost all clipping you hear is preamp clipping. Yes even in non master volume amps. Power tubes cannot clip the way preamp tubes do. Now a power section will compress some and you might interpet that as clipping but its not the same thing. What most people are hearing as crunch from a loud master volume amp is actually coming from an over driven PI tube.
 
Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

I prefer little to no resonating effect, in both cabinets and most electric guitars. I suppose the best example of resonating effect in a guitar, is to consider the sound of a Les Paul vs an Explorer. The LP uses a maple cap which lessens resonating effect, thereby reflecting most of the sound into the pickups. The Explorer all mahogany body absorbs more of the vibration, giving the guitar a milder, softer, more "squished" type sound. The way to balance this, is to use a thinner maple cap over the mahogany slab body (or) go with a thinner mahogany body. If you really want a smooth yet articulate lead tone, a Gibson SG will get you there. Take a listen to Steve Hunter's lead intro tone on Aerosmith's Train Kep't A Rollin... IMO, that is a perfectly balanced lead tone. Steve Hunter used a vintage SG w/P90 pickups for that recording session.

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This too is a load of bollocks. This is purely subjective and what you perceive as smooth and articulate. The maple cap doesnt reduce resonance. Thats just pure malarky. So is the idea that the cap will some how reflect the sound into the pickups. Have you ever wired up a pickup to an output jack and plugged it in and held it above the strings? Without any physical connection the pickup still produces sound. The pickup isnt "listening" to the wood. The pickup is only sensing the strings. Now the particular characteristics of a guitar can influence the harmonics and how the strings vibrate. But what the pickups are reading is coming from what the strings are doing.

The idea that there are old growth pine and new growth pines is also very silly, pine trees were harvested to hell during the great lumber baron days. Any old growth in america was gone not long after the turn of the century and LOOOOONG before Leo Fender decided to build anything out of it. A friend of mine is a pine tree farmer his oldest trees are 10 years old and are around 20 feet tall. This sure isnt what you would call old growth. Pine isnt Oak or even Maple. Pine is a fast growing tree that doesnt really age like hardwood trees do.
 
Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

Almost all clipping you hear is preamp clipping. Yes even in non master volume amps. Power tubes cannot clip the way preamp tubes do. Now a power section will compress some and you might interpet that as clipping but its not the same thing. What most people are hearing as crunch from a loud master volume amp is actually coming from an over driven PI tube.
You're an idiot.
 
Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

This too is a load of bollocks. This is purely subjective and what you perceive as smooth and articulate. The maple cap doesnt reduce resonance. Thats just pure malarky. So is the idea that the cap will some how reflect the sound into the pickups. Have you ever wired up a pickup to an output jack and plugged it in and held it above the strings? Without any physical connection the pickup still produces sound. The pickup isnt "listening" to the wood. The pickup is only sensing the strings. Now the particular characteristics of a guitar can influence the harmonics and how the strings vibrate. But what the pickups are reading is coming from what the strings are doing.

The idea that there are old growth pine and new growth pines is also very silly, pine trees were harvested to hell during the great lumber baron days. Any old growth in america was gone not long after the turn of the century and LOOOOONG before Leo Fender decided to build anything out of it. A friend of mine is a pine tree farmer his oldest trees are 10 years old and are around 20 feet tall. This sure isnt what you would call old growth. Pine isnt Oak or even Maple. Pine is a fast growing tree that doesnt really age like hardwood trees do.
"A friend of mine is a pine tree farmer..." LMAO! Yes, you are most definitely an idiot.
 
Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

I don't like power tube distortion, unless I'm doing Neil Young inspired stuff. The bottom end just gets too flubby. And if you dial it back, it looses thump.

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Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

I liked this thread better when it was about hot dogs.

When people start insulting over meaningless topics it stops being fun.
 
Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

It's like forum version of power tube distortion.

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Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

I love this thread. It has all my favorite hits: hot dogs, tonewoods, snipes and insults, and everybody is right. Hope it goes to ten pages. Entertaining and informative.
 
Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

Can we just put the offending people on ignore? I hate to have to close this.
 
Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

"A friend of mine is a pine tree farmer..." LMAO! Yes, you are most definitely an idiot.

You've never heard of a tree farmer? I guess some people call them plantations but it is a large industry and there are many recognized associations. Without them we would still be in the old days of lumber barons strip harvesting mountains and leaving them bare.
 
Re: Birch vs Pine - Maple vs Mahogany... Why woods matter.

Does void free single slab top of the line pine help any? If there are no knots in the wood being used, would that help or hinder the cabinet resonance? Does cabinet resonance really matter? How much power does it take to make a cabinet resonate? Will 5W do this?

What does resonate actually mean in a speaker cabinet?
 
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