Black winter and Bill Lawrence L-90 4H 5 Way split/full humbucker wiring help

[av3nger]

Okay guys, so I finally got a bill lawrence l dash 94 h deck pick up. Now I need to know how to have full humbuckers with 5-way coil tapping.

I guess I want this:

1. Bridge
2. Bridge 2
3. Bridge plus neck
4. Neck
5. Neck 2

I want a push pull to be used for having a full neck and full bridge setting...maybe even use it to use both full humbuckers at once.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Black winter and Bill Lawrence L-90 4H 5 Way split/full humbucker wiring help

Did you look at these? You can easily adapt the wiring from these to get what it sounds like you are trying to do.

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h_1v__5wss
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h_1v_1t_3w_2pp

I'm not sure what Bridge 2 or Neck 2 mean if you are planning on using push/pulls for the coil splitting. Sounds like you have overlapping controls - like the 5-way and the push-pulls are both handling some of the coil splitting. Doesn't seem necessary if that's the case.

 

[av3nger]

Re: Black winter and Bill Lawrence L-90 4H 5 Way split/full humbucker wiring help

Did you look at these? You can easily adapt the wiring from these to get what it sounds like you are trying to do.

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h_1v__5wss
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=2h_1v_1t_3w_2pp

I'm not sure what Bridge 2 or Neck 2 mean if you are planning on using push/pulls for the coil splitting. Sounds like you have overlapping controls - like the 5-way and the push-pulls are both handling some of the coil splitting. Doesn't seem necessary if that's the case.

Thanks for the info. The guitar stock has a volume and tone knob thT do not push/pull with a 5 way switch that taps all the coils. I wanted to know if I could have full humbuckers with a 5-way switch AND push pull pots. I guess i could use a push pull with my setup to split to tve outer or inner coils. What does a 5 way switch do...tap or split?

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Black winter and Bill Lawrence L-90 4H 5 Way split/full humbucker wiring help

Thanks for the info. The guitar stock has a volume and tone knob thT do not push/pull with a 5 way switch that taps all the coils. I wanted to know if I could have full humbuckers with a 5-way switch AND push pull pots. I guess i could use a push pull with my setup to split to tve outer or inner coils. What does a 5 way switch do...tap or split?

Coil tapping is only possible on a coil designed for tapping - e.g. there has to be a connection coming out of the middle of the wind somewhere that segments the turns. This is different from coil split where you turn off one coil of a humbucker and make it work as a single coil. Coil splitting is far more common and widely used and is more likely what your switch does, if it does anything with the coils.

The 5-way and the push-pulls in those diagrams were both doing coil split.

You say you want full humbuckers and coil splitting with the 5-way, but it appears that's what you already have. The switch selections in your original post show full humbucker and coil splitting (if that's what Bridge 2 and Neck 2 are referring to), so I'm still not clear on what you are wanting the push-pulls for.

The wiring to control which coil to split to is much more complex than just a push-pull. If that is what you want, you would be better off getting Seymour Duncan Triple-Shot Mounting Rings. They are like $30 and you can totally control which coil, series, parallel.

 

[av3nger]

Re: Black winter and Bill Lawrence L-90 4H 5 Way split/full humbucker wiring help

Coil tapping is only possible on a coil designed for tapping - e.g. there has to be a connection coming out of the middle of the wind somewhere that segments the turns. This is different from coil split where you turn off one coil of a humbucker and make it work as a single coil. Coil splitting is far more common and widely used and is more likely what your switch does, if it does anything with the coils.

The 5-way and the push-pulls in those diagrams were both doing coil split.

You say you want full humbuckers and coil splitting with the 5-way, but it appears that's what you already have. The switch selections in your original post show full humbucker and coil splitting (if that's what Bridge 2 and Neck 2 are referring to), so I'm still not clear on what you are wanting the push-pulls for.

The wiring to control which coil to split to is much more complex than just a push-pull. If that is what you want, you would be better off getting Seymour Duncan Triple-Shot Mounting Rings. They are like $30 and you can totally control which coil, series, parallel.

Well, I bought a super switch from tone shaper that has 4 poles. I guess I wanted to see what I could do by adding push/pull knobs. I thought maybe I could switch to a coil phase from a split or something. I guess a 5 way switch is enough but now that super switch is kind of defunct unless I can do something with it. I bought an RS Super pot and a CTS 500k audio taper for volume and tone but I thought of buying a push push from WD music or push pull from dimarzio.

The guitar:

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Black winter and Bill Lawrence L-90 4H 5 Way split/full humbucker wiring help

Here at the Duncan forum, no switch goes unused. There's always something you could wire it to.

 

[av3nger]

Re: Black winter and Bill Lawrence L-90 4H 5 Way split/full humbucker wiring help

Here at the Duncan forum, no switch goes unused. There's always something you could wire it to.

I dont have any experience with soldering with super switches. By the way...I'm curious about if there is any safe solder I can use without a mask. Something with no lead or rosin. Also, what Ade my options with a super switch and how do I wire two humbuckers with it?

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Black winter and Bill Lawrence L-90 4H 5 Way split/full humbucker wiring help

I'm not sure about 'safe' solder. Usually the solder roll says right on it 'no rosin' and what not. For electronics you want to make sure you use silver solder for better conductivity.

Have you been through the wiring diagrams this site has? There's a number of examples of SuperSwitch wiring.
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/

Here's a couple diagrams of just the switch to help figure out which tabs are connected in which positions.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_8pKbeWMtBCs/TUGNvMyE5kI/AAAAAAAAASw/ZcknN_5dHoM/s1600/superswitch.png
http://www.neighborhost.com/images/SuperSwitch_deluxe.png

 

[av3nger]

Re: Black winter and Bill Lawrence L-90 4H 5 Way split/full humbucker wiring help

I'm not sure about 'safe' solder. Usually the solder roll says right on it 'no rosin' and what not. For electronics you want to make sure you use silver solder for better conductivity.

Have you been through the wiring diagrams this site has? There's a number of examples of SuperSwitch wiring.
http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/

Here's a couple diagrams of just the switch to help figure out which tabs are connected in which positions.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_8pKbeWMtBCs/TUGNvMyE5kI/AAAAAAAAASw/ZcknN_5dHoM/s1600/superswitch.png
http://www.neighborhost.com/images/SuperSwitch_deluxe.png

Thanks for the info. That's just the default full humbucker bridge, bridge coil, bridge and neck, neck coil, neck full setup tho right? I'd love to see some advanced wiring. I guess I will need push pulls or something for anything extra

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Black winter and Bill Lawrence L-90 4H 5 Way split/full humbucker wiring help

You can sure get trickier, but two things: the more unique your idea, the less likely a diagram already exists for it - so you'll either need to be adept at reading/creating wiring diagrams, or you'll need help drawing it up. And second, you'll have to be very clear and explicit about what you want the switch positions to do and know that not everything in the world is possible. But it's worth asking.

The good news is a lot of guys have already tried some wild ideas, so just searching for "5-way super switch diagram" yields some interesting results of things guys have tried. (But you'll need to inspect the drawings carefully because not every drawing posted on the web actually worked.)

 

[av3nger]

Re: Black winter and Bill Lawrence L-90 4H 5 Way split/full humbucker wiring help

You can sure get trickier, but two things: the more unique your idea, the less likely a diagram already exists for it - so you'll either need to be adept at reading/creating wiring diagrams, or you'll need help drawing it up. And second, you'll have to be very clear and explicit about what you want the switch positions to do and know that not everything in the world is possible. But it's worth asking.

The good news is a lot of guys have already tried some wild ideas, so just searching for "5-way super switch diagram" yields some interesting results of things guys have tried. (But you'll need to inspect the drawings carefully because not every drawing posted on the web actually worked.)

What is series/parallel with pickups? I guess the only extra option I want is to have a knob for splitting the bridge and neck pickups to outer coil instead if my default is:

1. Full bridge
2. Inner coil bridge
3. Full neck and full bridge?
4. Inner coil neck pickup
5. Full neck pickup

So I at least want a push push knob that will change 2 and 4 to outer coils.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Black winter and Bill Lawrence L-90 4H 5 Way split/full humbucker wiring help

Normal humbuckers have both coils running in series, one after the other. You can also put the coils in parallel where each coil is hooked to the positive and negative side-by-side. Yields a single-coil-like sound, but still humbucking.

With a 5-way super switch doing the above switch settings, I believe you could have an additional push-push swap the coil of the split on 2 and 4. I believe the push-push would have to be wired off the common lug of the 5-way section that is doing the split (e.g. the pickup series links come in to the 2 and 4 tabs on one of the four sets of lugs, and the push-push is wired on that common lug) and would simply flip that connection from ground to positive to swap the coil.

 

[av3nger]

Re: Black winter and Bill Lawrence L-90 4H 5 Way split/full humbucker wiring help

Normal humbuckers have both coils running in series, one after the other. You can also put the coils in parallel where each coil is hooked to the positive and negative side-by-side. Yields a single-coil-like sound, but still humbucking.

With a 5-way super switch doing the above switch settings, I believe you could have an additional push-push swap the coil of the split on 2 and 4. I believe the push-push would have to be wired off the common lug of the 5-way section that is doing the split (e.g. the pickup series links come in to the 2 and 4 tabs on one of the four sets of lugs, and the push-push is wired on that common lug) and would simply flip that connection from ground to positive to swap the coil.

Thanks! You'd have to elaborate more on parallel and series... So I know how they are wired and how they achieve that affect. Would you recommend making an L-90 sound like a single coil? What would a series look like from the top looking down at the guitar and what would parallel look like? Does parallel or series wiring render the 2 and 4 outer coil option pointless? I bought an Rs super pot and Cts 500k audio taper but I know I will have to buy new pots. I wish I could somehow convert them to push push. I guess I can get one or two push push pots from WD Music...that is...if doing outer coils...parallel and or series is worth it.

Bridge is a hot pickup while the l-90 is cool to moderate output. I wanted the most detailed distortion and most clean and bell-like neck pickup with plenty of treble and bass with the presence of mids

Can I please get an illustration of the final wiring for 2 to 4 outer and parallel using two push push's? One knob for the outer coils and one knob for parallel wiring.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Black winter and Bill Lawrence L-90 4H 5 Way split/full humbucker wiring help

Short answers for now (need more time to give long answers)

Would you recommend making an L-90 sound like a single coil?

It's a question of if single coil in that position is useful for you. (more later)

What would a series look like from the top looking down at the guitar and what would parallel look like?

Series/parallel of the coils is all in the wiring. No change to the physical pickup. (more later)

Does parallel or series wiring render the 2 and 4 outer coil option pointless?

No, it gives you yet another sound.

Can I please get an illustration of the final wiring for 2 to 4 outer and parallel using two push push's? One knob for the outer coils and one knob for parallel wiring.

Just FYI, everyone on here is a volunteer, not Duncan employees, so while we will always help as much as we can, it's not our day job, so be patient. I'll try to see if I can cobble something together, but if I can't get to it soon, please don't feel like Duncan did anyone wrong or anything. Volunteer members here are just doing our best in our spare time. I'd like to help you, so I'll see what I can do. But be patient.

 

[av3nger]

Re: Black winter and Bill Lawrence L-90 4H 5 Way split/full humbucker wiring help

Alright thank you. Do you think just dropping in a switch like this would be a viable option instead of push push knobs? I could just punch a new hole in the guitar and putsomething like this in:

With that I can have up as parallel, neutral as normal and down as outer coils

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Black winter and Bill Lawrence L-90 4H 5 Way split/full humbucker wiring help

That switch won't help you for what you are asking. That is a Single-Pole, Dual Throw (SPDT) on-on-on switch. For what you are asking, you need a Dual-Pole, Dual Throw (DPDT) on-on switch to affect the coils on two pickups simultaneously.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Black winter and Bill Lawrence L-90 4H 5 Way split/full humbucker wiring help

I just realized what you are asking for has changed with almost every post.

If you want to have parallel/series of the pickup coils, that will take up one push-push each, so you won't get choosing the coil for the split. And you never decided what your center switch position is - you have a question mark by the last post indicating the center position.

If you are going to do a complex wiring job yourself, you really need to figure out exactly what you want.

If you are just experimenting and really don't know what you want, I would strongly recommend just getting the Triple Shot pickup rings. They are about $30 each and should save you HOURS and DAYS of frustration soldering and re-soldering your guitar. They will give you each coil individually, or both coils in series or in parallel, for each pickup separately. They will give you everything a humbucker can do.

Note: Your wiring scheme so far will give you 7 sounds. A pair of Triple Shots in a 2 PU guitar will give you 24 sounds.

After you've figured out exactly which sounds really work for you, THEN I would go for hard wiring it all in with a super switch and push/pull whatevers.

 

[av3nger]

Re: Black winter and Bill Lawrence L-90 4H 5 Way split/full humbucker wiring help

I just realized what you are asking for has changed with almost every post.

If you want to have parallel/series of the pickup coils, that will take up one push-push each, so you won't get choosing the coil for the split. And you never decided what your center switch position is - you have a question mark by the last post indicating the center position.

If you are going to do a complex wiring job yourself, you really need to figure out exactly what you want.

If you are just experimenting and really don't know what you want, I would strongly recommend just getting the Triple Shot pickup rings. They are about $30 each and should save you HOURS and DAYS of frustration soldering and re-soldering your guitar. They will give you each coil individually, or both coils in series or in parallel, for each pickup separately. They will give you everything a humbucker can do.

Note: Your wiring scheme so far will give you 7 sounds. A pair of Triple Shots in a 2 PU guitar will give you 24 sounds.

After you've figured out exactly which sounds really work for you, THEN I would go for hard wiring it all in with a super switch and push/pull whatevers.

I just watched a video so I know how each setting sounds now. Basically in fullness the options starting at fullest flow this way: Series, parallel, and then single coil. I'd honestly like all three options for both humbuckers but it would make the most sense to have the bridge wired as series by default. I like parallel on Tue bridge too...whereas full and single would work best on the neck. It would be best if I had the 5 switch wired this way:

1. Series bridge
2. Parallel bridge
3. Series neck and series bridge
4. Outer coil neck
5. Series neck

I can use an on-off switch such

Down: coil tap:
1.bridge outer
2. Bridge inner
3. Bridge inner and neck inner combined
4. Neck inner
5. Neck outer

While the switch is on...I can have another switch that is three way that does; bridge outer and neck outer on 3..off is normal as above in the numbered list...the second one. The other on position can do this:
Parallel neck for 4.

Or I can get a triple shot
Although it is plastic with bad reviews. I've got metal humbucker rings right now...I would be more happy to grab one if it was more sturdy. Eh...that really makes the superswitch pointless. I would like to have two extra solid switches instead.