Black Winter or SH-6

[Iron1]

Re: Black Winter or SH-6

My first recommendation would be a humble EMG81 in the LTD. A lot of the LTDs I have installed pickups on for people have usually been the EMG81 and in LTDs, especially the MH with its arched top, the EMG 81 has always just sounded perfect. Nice thick meaty and crunchy. Given your other gear, it would compliment the Super Distortion in your RG470 really well.

If you're definite against active, of the pickups I've tried I'd suggest giving the Alternative 8 a go. I just loaded one in my Explorer and I really like it.

Thanks, jonsick. I was fairly set on getting Blackouts, but decided I didn't want to deal with routing out a battery hole and changing 9volts. That was before I started this thread. If you look upstream a few posts, you'll see I grabbed an SH-6 yesterday. Hopefully, I'll have it in and ready to roll soon.

 

[dominus]

Re: Black Winter or SH-6

52mm on both pole to pole. It fits.

well so much for the "no one uses standard spacing anymore" diatribe...

Last I checked, 52mm was trembucker spacing. 50mm is standard.

 

[dominus]

Re: Black Winter or SH-6

You know... You've posted this for years as proof and blasted how this confirms it... but really it doesnt. It proves that in THAT guitar THAT pickup had a volume drop. It certainly doesnt prove a universal rule. Ive had invaders under wide bridges and not had issues. Me not having issues doesnt make yours less true nor does it make it any more true. It only proves different guitars with different set ups are different. While issues are possible they are far from certain.

I post that picture whenever someone says that it doesn't matter. If it didn't matter, there'd be no such thing as F-Spacing or TB-Spacing. It's for the 1% of guitars that may have the issue. I clearly say every time that *I* experienced a problem, and it's better to be safe and get the proper spacing. The fact that the picture is a clear indicator of a string spacing issue on oversized poles helps to illustrate that it *can* make a difference.

There are plenty of things that I've never experienced that other people have. If people were able to show an unaltered photo of it I *may* just have to say that it actually happened.

 

[Iron1]

Re: Black Winter or SH-6

Last I checked, 52mm was trembucker spacing. 50mm is standard.

Just for my own personal knowledge, is that measurement taken from dead center on the outside poles or the outer edges?

 

[Chazzy]

Re: Black Winter or SH-6

Maybe if its small, but i thought the invader was good for trembucker and standard spacing because of its pole piece, there is no tb8... there is only the sh8

 

[Chazzy]

Re: Black Winter or SH-6

Its not a modern guitar btw, made in 1980 something....

 

[Chazzy]

Re: Black Winter or SH-6

Tell us how it sounds!

 

[dominus]

Re: Black Winter or SH-6

Maybe if its small, but i thought the invader was good for trembucker and standard spacing because of its pole piece, there is no tb8... there is only the sh8

They started making a TB-8 a little while ago:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/products/electric/humbucker/high-output/synyster_gates/

 

[Chazzy]

Re: Black Winter or SH-6

thats interesting actually, i didnt notice, i always felt the synyster model had a sharper sound to it that the normal invader? because of the spacing?

 

[Demanic]

Re: Black Winter or SH-6

You want to try to line up your strings over the centers of the pole pieces. Or get a blade style pickup, as long as the blade fits under the entirety of the string spread. Wasn't that part of the reasoning behind having bridge humbuckers angled on some of the guitars back in the 80's? That was before there were specific trem spaced pickups.

 

[omg81]

Re: Black Winter or SH-6

I know you already chose the Distortion, and I think it's the better choice for most metal styles. Most styles prefer a meaty, chunky low end, and the BW is much drier. The bass is there, it's punching, but clearly rather tight than beefy. Black metal typically isn't bass-heavy. One typical characteristic of that style is the use of heavily distorted full minor or dissonant chords, and the BW really shines there. Most pickups will get muddy when you do that, but the BW is crystal clear. On average, black metal uses higher strings than other styles do, and the BW makes the higher strings cut through.

It's said that the BW is great for non-metal styles too thanks to its well-balanced output, but that's probably because most other metal pickups tend to be bass-heavy because that is desired in most metal styles.

 

[Iron1]

Re: Black Winter or SH-6

I know you already chose the Distortion, and I think it's the better choice for most metal styles. Most styles prefer a meaty, chunky low end, and the BW is much drier. The bass is there, it's punching, but clearly rather tight than beefy. Black metal typically isn't bass-heavy. One typical characteristic of that style is the use of heavily distorted full minor or dissonant chords, and the BW really shines there. Most pickups will get muddy when you do that, but the BW is crystal clear. On average, black metal uses higher strings than other styles do, and the BW makes the higher strings cut through.

It's said that the BW is great for non-metal styles too thanks to its well-balanced output, but that's probably because most other metal pickups tend to be bass-heavy because that is desired in most metal styles.

I was actually looking for something that wasn't too bass heavy, as the DP100 in my other guitar is, and the thick distorted bass fills the bottom end well enough that the third piece of this tone puzzle needed to be more mids/highs. But, from what I can tell on the tone chart and what I've read from others, the DP100 and SH-6 should compliment each other very well. The closest I get to Black Metal is low end string bends ala early Celtic Frost, but I do have some higher end stuff more akin to Destruction or Kreator, but really not many dissonant chords, although they are fun to play. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[omg81]

Re: Black Winter or SH-6

Last I checked, 52mm was trembucker spacing. 50mm is standard.

Seymour Duncan says standard is 49mm and TB is 52.6. When I had to choose the correct BW for my Jackson, I took a closer look and measured all my guitars, and it turns out they're all somewhere in the middle, from 50mm (Gibson) to 51.5 (Charvel with original FR), and indeed on none of my guitars the bridge pole pieces are exactly beneath the strings, HB's are always slightly too narrow and the TB (Charvel only) slightly too wide. Actually the Gibson HB seemed to be the closest to matching the strings.

I ended up buying the HB version of the BW, and it fits no better or worse than the bridge pups of my other guitars.

 

[omg81]

Re: Black Winter or SH-6

but I do have some higher end stuff more akin to Destruction or Kreator

Compared to most black metal, even their sound is rather bass-heavy. For those, personally I would choose the Distortion.

edit: it's not "too bass-heavy" btw, there are much bassier pups than the Distortion, by today's standards it's more mid-range old-school imo. When I say the Distortion is bassy, that's mostly compared to the BW, which I find somewhat extreme for most metal styles that aren't BM.

That said, I still need to fiddle around with my EQ settings, for all my other guitars I had mid and treble turned up and bass turned down, seems like I can use a more balanced EQ with the BW.

 

[omg81]

Re: Black Winter or SH-6

My first recommendation would be a humble EMG81 in the LTD. A lot of the LTDs I have installed pickups on for people have usually been the EMG81 and in LTDs, especially the MH with its arched top, the EMG 81 has always just sounded perfect. Nice thick meaty and crunchy.

I don't know, I always disliked the 81. Certainly well-defined at high gain, pretty clear which is good if you use tons of effects I guess (I don't), and good for soft ultra-gain leads, you can add tons of gain without the sound getting too harsh. But I always found that's all it can do. I find them very flat and bland, bad for crunch sounds, awful for clean, not enough bite for more aggressive sounds, and lacking in attack response. Plasticky is the word that comes to my mind. I tried some 81-equipped LTD's once, but found them just as lacking as my Jackson which also had one.

I replaced that with a BW a few days ago, and it's a huge improvement. From somewhat bland it turned into a nasty beast.

My opinion of course, and I admit I like my sound brutal.

 

[Iron1]

Re: Black Winter or SH-6

I took a closer look and measured all my guitars, and it turns out they're all somewhere in the middle...

Do you measure from the center of the poles or the outer edges?

 

[omg81]

Re: Black Winter or SH-6

What I measured was the strings, I expected the pole pieces to be standardised. It seemed they are, because the offset was just what you would expect given the string spacing compared to SD's numbers.

 

[Iron1]

Re: Black Winter or SH-6

Finally got the SH-6 installed. It sounds WAY better than the stock PUP, as expected. The stock one was a muddy, half hearted shove while the SH-6 is a sharp punch in the mouth. Thanks to all for the guidance in purchasing it.

One thing I'm trying to figure out how to correct - and I hope one of y'all has an answer for - is the amount of noise I get. It was there with the stock pup and is still there with the SH-6. String noise, body creaks and what not. I can palm mute my Ibanez (loaded with a DP100) and it's dead silent. With this one, it's almost never dead silent.

Any ideas how to fix that? Is it cheap pots/selector/wiring? TIA

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Black Winter or SH-6

So you mean noises like buzz, hiss, or hum? Or just "string noise, body creaks and what not"? It could be the cheap electronics, but if it's just the later, maybe it's because the response of the pickup (and the guitar in general) is just different than the Super Distortion, and you're just not used to it.

The Duncan Distortion is waaaaay brighter than the Super Distortion, and it does emphasize stuff you don't really notice with the DiMarzio and viceversa.

 

[Iron1]

Re: Black Winter or SH-6

So you mean noises like buzz, hiss, or hum? Or just "string noise, body creaks and what not"? It could be the cheap electronics, but if it's just the later, maybe it's because the response of the pickup (and the guitar in general) is just different than the Super Distortion, and you're just not used to it.

The Duncan Distortion is waaaaay brighter than the Super Distortion, and it does emphasize stuff you don't really notice with the DiMarzio and viceversa.

Thanks for the reply. It's excess string noise, etc. - not ground hum or that sort of noise. And, it did it with the crappy stock LTD pickup, too.