Black Winter Set Overdrive Hum

oswulf

New member
Hi everyone,

I recently bought a new Charvel DC-1 ST Desolation that came with some active EMG 81/85s and I went ahead and decided to swap them out with a set of passive Black Winters. The set up is a 3 way toggle, 1 vol and 1 tone knob. This was my first go around installing pick ups and soldering so a complete beginner.

After hooking them all up, whenever I turn on the overdrive on my Blackstar HT-1rh head, even on a very low setting, lower than 12 o'clock, or run some gain via Bias FX through a Scarlett 2i2, I get some loud noticeable hum. On clean it's not an issue, but even on the lowest setting with overdrive flicked on it's humming, I've tried 3 cables just to see if that's the issue, but it's the same, however whenever I touch the audio jack, bridge or tuning peg of the guitar, the hum ceases and is as good as when it's on clean, which is what I'd like all the time, touching the strings only ceases when holding all of them down, but not as much as the jack, peg or bridge.

I've taken the guitar into the shop twice, the bloke said he's ran his meter on it and it is grounded, and there is a bridge ground on it which I did solder to the toning pot, he's also said the solder joints (although sloppy as I packed a ton of solder on, oops :|) are also good. I don't have any shielding on the inside though except for the wiring cover on the back.

So my question is, is that hum just standard for high gain pickups like these and is it the standard to get a gate? I watched a bunch of videos demoing the BW prior to getting them and didn't hear any humming on high gain, but couldn't see any mention of using a gate. My EMGs were super tidy when maxed out on Overdrive, although the were active, I also was using the overdrive on max with my old Ephiphone with stock passive Alnico pickups with no hum on the same settings too, and I've been considering just buying 2 new pots again, another capacitor and a mono jack and just doing it all again but clean and with only a small amount of solder, despite the chap at the shop saying everything's okay.

I can post a picture of the guts if need be, sorry if this is a common thread, I've been googling, and youtubing, and going back to the shop for answers, so this is my last stop. Thanks in advance!
 
Re: Black Winter Set Overdrive Hum

They shouldn't hum at all. Did the tech test with everything out of the guitar? Or with everything still in the guitar? I ask because you can have a wiring harness that tests good out of a guitar, then pack it all back in and suddenly have a wire touching something it's not supposed to inside the cavity.

The only other possibility I can think of is if the red/white series wires were not properly connected, or are not taped off and now they are touching ground in the cavity somewhere, making your pickups run in single coil mode, which would possibly hum.
 
Re: Black Winter Set Overdrive Hum

Did you change the pots? If not, I would say that is probably your answer.
 
Re: Black Winter Set Overdrive Hum

No, this shouldn't hum at all. Something isn't grounded right. Is the bridge ground connected? Did you try in different locations (house wiring might be an issue)? Different cable? Check for cold solder joints, and as always, pics do help.
 
Re: Black Winter Set Overdrive Hum

Im having the same issue as well. Just installed a bw on my esp e-ii m1 last night. All the soldering looks good and shiny albeit a bit messy. Red and white are taped fine and bridge ground and ground under bridge are both soldered to new yjm pot. This is really getting frustrating.
 
Re: Black Winter Set Overdrive Hum

Sounds like your bridge is NOT grounded somehow. Either a bad joint, or bad connection at the body/bridge connection.
 
Re: Black Winter Set Overdrive Hum

I went ahead and bought some new pots and a fresh mono jack too, just to see if it would make a difference from scratch, used the same wiring diagram from SD for 2 hum buckers 1 tone, 1 vol and 3 way switch. Alas no change, it all looks to spec from the diagram and I checked my red and white wires and they're soldered together and taped off good. Still though, hum is audible very low, soon as the OD button pushed again, even on low OD, buzzing with a bit of relief when touching the bridge.

So what I'm thinking is, because the guitar wasn't shielded prior to adding the new hum buckers, to maybe go ahead and get some shield paint and coat the cavity a few times, and to maybe check under the bushings of the tune-o-metic? Would this be the recommended next step? Thanks for your comments, new to this guitar stuff, but despite the frustration it's pretty cool. I will post some pics tomorrow.

Did you get yours fixed Redhorn?
 
Re: Black Winter Set Overdrive Hum

ive been researching other sites and I'm curious if the hum goes away when the switch is in the middle position? if so, it seems to be an issue others are experiencing as well. someone suggested this:


#1 - when the pickup selector is in the middle position, both volume and tone pots are connected. This will load down the pickup output and/or the amp input (depending on where the hum is actually coming from) quite a bit more, maybe enough to kill the hum. Not only that, the combined impedance and inductance of both pickups together is half that of either alone, which will do the same thing.

#2 - although the pickups are humbuckers, they aren't 'perfect', since the coils are most likely not truly balanced and aren't quite in the same physical location, and a little hum will always be present. But in a normal two-humbucker guitar, the magnetic fields of the two pickups face in opposite directions, and this may make them better at rejecting hum when they're on together - it will be a small difference, but it might eliminate that last few percent of hum you're hearing.

It's fairly easy to test this theory - just rotate (not phase reverse) one pickup and see if it still cancels the hum in the 'both' position. If it does, it's #1, probably.
 
Re: Black Winter Set Overdrive Hum

Have you ever considered where the ground wire meets the bridge? If that junction were messed up, (and that happens from time to time,) you could be soldering until you are blue in the face, and you would not fix it. Contrary to 6unslin6er, it probably is the guitar. The EMGs should be noisier than the passives.
 
Re: Black Winter Set Overdrive Hum

Hello,

This has already been taken care of and I would like to add anyway that one of the most frightening things about the Black Winters (especially the set) is how quiet they are.

2 Things about the Black Winters that surprise most people:

1) They are F#^king AWESOME clean pickups.

2) They are whisper quiet.
 
Re: Black Winter Set Overdrive Hum

Had that a few times too, with different pickups including the BW, and it always was faulty grounding. I have no idea what else it could be if it stops when you touch the jack.

Pickups being high output is definitely not the reason, works perfectly well here. Once I did the grounding right.
 
Re: Black Winter Set Overdrive Hum

Things about the Black Winters that surprise most people:

1) They are F#^king AWESOME clean pickups.

Heh, definitely. Installed it into my Epiphone with the intention to play Slayer and Mayhem. Now it wants me to play Gary Moore and Eric Clapton all the time. And it still kills with a little bit of gain. Must be because they're so clear and incredibly dynamic and respond so wonderfully to picking technique.
 
Re: Black Winter Set Overdrive Hum

::Facepalm::

It's not your guitar. It's the wiring in your studio. Just lift the ground. Watch the video.

For humbuckers, a noise gate helps with feedback. That is all.

That's horrible advice.

a) The OP said nothing about a studio.
b) NEVER neglect the ground on any appliances that come with a grounded prong. Completely lifting the ground from the outlet will neglect the ground lug from all your devices.
c) A noise gate does exactly what the name says. When you stop playing, and there's just noise, the signal is cut. You can still get feedback with a noise gate if the feedback is above the noise gate threshold.

EMGs shield the coils from within the pickup really well, and it cuts down on noise. Now that you changed pickups, the Black Winters don't come with their coils already shielded, and none of the guitar's cavities are really shielded either. There's your problem. Properly shield the pickup cavities and the control cavity, and the noise should be significantly reduced.
 
Re: Black Winter Set Overdrive Hum

And you know what? The OP hasn't posted anything since the first post. So none of us are getting a follow-up and are guessing among ourselves.

Really?

I went ahead and bought some new pots and a fresh mono jack too, just to see if it would make a difference from scratch, used the same wiring diagram from SD for 2 hum buckers 1 tone, 1 vol and 3 way switch. Alas no change, it all looks to spec from the diagram and I checked my red and white wires and they're soldered together and taped off good. Still though, hum is audible very low, soon as the OD button pushed again, even on low OD, buzzing with a bit of relief when touching the bridge.

So what I'm thinking is, because the guitar wasn't shielded prior to adding the new hum buckers, to maybe go ahead and get some shield paint and coat the cavity a few times, and to maybe check under the bushings of the tune-o-metic? Would this be the recommended next step? Thanks for your comments, new to this guitar stuff, but despite the frustration it's pretty cool. I will post some pics tomorrow.
 
Re: Black Winter Set Overdrive Hum

^^^I'm sorry Dominus. I stand corrected. I missed that post.

The OP hasn't posted anything since post #8. So none of us are getting a follow-up and are guessing among ourselves.
*fixed

Sad to see nothing was fixed though. Perhaps you can help him.

Actually, the problem is quite clearly the guitar's grounding from the OP. (not a ground loop past that.)

A ground loop would not be fixed by touching all the strings. It also is clearly a problem at the bridge. (note that all 6 strings have to be touched for the hum to go away.) I just had a weird thought though. Does this guitar have graphite saddles? Just an odd potential problem with them being non-conductive. However, the fact that the problem goes away when metal is touched on the hardware indicates that the hardware is ungrounded.

A noise gate would very slightly mask the problem without fixing it. Lifting a ground is a bad idea since it removes a safety feature on a separate part of the rig that is not part of the problem. With solder caked on, it is almost certain that the bridge ground is the problem.
 
Re: Black Winter Set Overdrive Hum

no, no luck oswulf. I ordered a new pot to see if that helps but Im really stuck. The soldering is all solid and the red and white look good. I have both grounds from bridge and ground from under bridge humbucker soldered to my one volume pot too
 
Re: Black Winter Set Overdrive Hum

Holmes,

Just for $h!ts and giggles...

Bring your axe to a music shop and plug in to a relatively high gain amp and see what happens.

Nothing else seems to be working, so let's just get this outta the way if you have the time.

Good luck though...issues like this get frustrating.

I'm with you brother.

~LD
 
Re: Black Winter Set Overdrive Hum

Something is going on at the bridge. I am wondering a few things. Firstly, does this guitar have a trem? If it is the tunomatic version, pulling a stud might be necessary to make sure the ground wire isn't broken. Does it have graphite saddles? If so, they can break the grounding of the strings by isolating them from the grounded bridge. Basically, I am wondering about the other end of your bridge ground, not attached to the volume pot. If it is broken or disconnected, it would do exactly what you are describing. Another last ditch effort I might try is reflowing the solder on the back of the volume pot. Also, is the switch grounded? It wouldn't account for everything, but might account for some things.
 
Re: Black Winter Set Overdrive Hum

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Thanks a lot for all the awesome replies. My capacitor snapped a few days ago on me and didn't have a spare so I just soldered in a home made paper and oil one, and oddly enough getting a really nice and bright tone from the guitar, better than the old capacitor and slightly less noticeable hum.

Still getting the hum on the overdrive though so I've decided third time lucky, I've ordered some shielding paint, braided wire, and a bunch of new capacitors and might even go for a third round of pots, and will pull out the bushings on the bridge when I do it to check for a bridge ground, so hoping the lessons thus far will pay off. Will update this in about two weeks when the gear arrives and I get it all sorted out and will post if it worked or not.

I'm not sure if the bridge is graphite or not but I did take a photograph of the guitar itself to see if you can tell off band. I will pull up the bushings soon though when I do the third go around.

Thanks Lucy I actually think if the next efforts don't fix it I'll take it to a shop and mess around on some amps!

Best of luck to you too red horn, if shielding it and all that helps I'll let you know!
 
Re: Black Winter Set Overdrive Hum

fixed it. Got a new pot and resoldered everything. Tried to make it as neat as possible and keep everything pretty. Looks nice and hum is gone.
 
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