Black Winter/YJM Or Backouts for Metal?

Dejoblue

Dejoblue

New member
Going in this white Kramer: http://dejablueguitar.blogspot.com

I have decided to make this my metal guitar. The neck pickup broke and the bridge is a JB. The bridge just is not tight enough.

Slayer Seasons and 'tallica Puppetz, Justice and Magnetic are the tones I am going for. I would like to be able to do some Petrucci as well.

I love Dino Cazerez(Fear Factory) and Tosin Abasi but this is for 6 string metal tuned to E flat or dropped D. Planning to get an 8 string for that Fear Factory/Animals as Leaders sound. Dino helped design or at least test and opine with the Blackouts but Tosin used EMG and now is using DiMarzio Ionizer 8s he helped design and or test them.

My dilemma is that I have listened to the Ola and Keith demo videos:

The Blackouts and the Distortion sound nearly identical to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryzie8mham8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZYDYiOIuC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3YzI3sd2WA

The Black Winter and Distortion sound similar too, I hear the high end clarity on the Black Winter:
Ola compares the Black Winter to the Distortion here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vc0CGTpAnI

I love all three, they sound very similar, post process etc.

I have played EMGs... in several stores, friends guitars, etc over the years, hate them, to shrill and waaaay too noisy. Thus I am hesitant with the Blackouts. I mean Slayer, Metallica, Fear factory sound great with EMGs, just not in my hands.

Thanks for any input and insight.
 
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Re: Black Winter/YJM Or Backouts for Metal?

Also if you like Petrucci look into either an Air Norton or Liquifire or his new sig neck PU

I love the Air Norton and Liquifire
 
Re: Black Winter/YJM Or Backouts for Metal?

I've got a guitar setup in drop C, sometimes drop B with a JB in the bridge and it's not loose at all and plenty of guitarists have tuned down to B/C standard with the JB for years and years. Michael Amott, and both the dudes from Gojira, just a few that come to mind that rock JBs in the bridge and have had extremely tight and controlled high gain tones.
To me it sounds like the issue is somewhere else in your signal chain, because drop D isn't even close to pushing how low a JB can go before it gets mushy and loose.

As far as discussion on EMGs go, it sounds like you were playing guitars with the 81 in the bridge. I definitely recognize that slightly shrill upper mid quality they can have at E/Eb standard tuning.
EMG 81s really need to be combined with heavy strings and down tuning (C# and lower) to sound more balanced.
Swapping the 85s (that many guitars have in the neck position) into the bridge does wonders. You lose those shrill upper mids and the lower mids are thicker and beefier, without being loose.
Not much of a fan of the bridge Blackout model. WAY too much output for my needs (many others share the same sentiment), not as tight as the EMGs.
The neck model in the bridge is really nice though IMHO. Much more reasonable output levels and an overall more balanced sound.
 
Re: Black Winter/YJM Or Backouts for Metal?

Inder_Cine_Mann said:
Blackouts poop all over EMGs
Click to expand...


IMHO . . .yes, the above statement is indeed correct.

And that is not an opinion - that is a fact ;-)

Duncan single handily made me want to get a set of Active Pick Ups and install into a guitar, just to have a set.

EMGeee . . . never did that do me.

I already looking into a used Ibby RG721RW as 'donor-body' for the Black Outs.

11557_0_IBANEZ_RG721RW-CNF_Premium_Limited_Edition_E-Gitarre.jpg
 
Re: Black Winter/YJM Or Backouts for Metal?

Dejoblue said:
Going in this white Kramer: http://dejablueguitar.blogspot.com

I have decided to make this my metal guitar. The neck pickup broke and the bridge is a JB. The bridge just is not tight enough.

Slayer Seasons and 'tallica Puppetz, Justice and Magnetic are the tones I am going for. I would like to be able to do some Petrucci as well.

I love Dino Cazerez(Fear Factory) and Tosin Abasi but this is for 6 string metal tuned to E flat or dropped D. Planning to get an 8 string for that Fear Factory/Animals as Leaders sound. Dino helped design or at least test and opine with the Blackouts but Tosin used EMG and now is using DiMarzio Ionizer 8s he helped design and or test them.

My dilemma is that I have listened to the Ola and Keith demo videos:

The Blackouts and the Distortion sound nearly identical to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryzie8mham8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZYDYiOIuC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3YzI3sd2WA

The Black Winter and Distortion sound similar too, I hear the high end clarity on the Black Winter:
Ola compares the Black Winter to the Distortion here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vc0CGTpAnI

I love all three, they sound very similar, post process etc.

I have played EMGs... in several stores, friends guitars, etc over the years, hate them, to shrill and waaaay too noisy. Thus I am hesitant with the Blackouts. I mean Slayer, Metallica, Fear factory sound great with EMGs, just not in my hands.

Thanks for any input and insight.
Click to expand...

As far as I've been able to determine from YouTube videos, I'd say that Black Winters fit pretty much straight between Blackouts and Distortion. However, it should be kept in mind that, what you see and hear on YouTube videos won't be as true as being in the room with it.

That said, a Black Winter bridge would probably do you. The height that you fit the pickup at will also have an effect on your tone.

As to the neck pickup... hard to say, I've not heard Blackouts single or a YJM but, seeing as wiring a passive and active can be a trick to pull off, I'd go with the passive YJM and shred til your fingers bleed.

I'd say, research your idea to death and back and compare as many riffs that you've heard as possible with these pickups to get the fairest test you can. The rest is up to your heart and your wallet.
 
Re: Black Winter/YJM Or Backouts for Metal?

I haven't played the other pickups mentioned, but I love my Black Winter set.
 
Re: Black Winter/YJM Or Backouts for Metal?

Uh, that was one sweet Stagey'... hope you manage to get her up and running, and working for you. It would be a crying shame to just trash a guitar like that.

Dejoblue said:
I have decided to make this my metal guitar. The neck pickup broke and the bridge is a JB. The bridge just is not tight enough.
Click to expand...

The JB wasn't built for tightness, I am afraid. For that reason, it wouldn't be my first choice for a neck through guitar like yours. When you pair it with the wrong guitar, it can get mushy and flubby even in standard tuning - it's just a pickup after all. A Distortion might work better, being hotter, tighter and "screamier". That being said, personally, I'd go for a PATB-1 for starters.

The guitar looks like a great platform for active pickups, so if that's the route you want to take it, there is no reason not to. Blackouts sound and feel completely unlike EMGs. There's no way of knowing whether they fit you, other than actually trying them out in person.
 
Re: Black Winter/YJM Or Backouts for Metal?

Petrovsk Mizinski said:
As far as discussion on EMGs go, it sounds like you were playing guitars with the 81 in the bridge. I definitely recognize that slightly shrill upper mid quality they can have at E/Eb standard tuning.

Swapping the 85s (that many guitars have in the neck position) into the bridge does wonders. You lose those shrill upper mids and the lower mids are thicker and beefier, without being loose.
Click to expand...

Yup,love teh 85 @ the bridge!!!

Lovely guitar/great work & playing/toan BTW!!! :headbang:

Personally,I'd stick w/ passives in it...

.02
 
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Re: Black Winter/YJM Or Backouts for Metal?

Black Winters stand completely alone in the pickup world.

Comparisons should only be made to help people understand what can't be understood without trying them yourself.

Black Winters completely, unabashedly and without remorse P!SS all over Emgs.

The Winters are a completely different animal than the Distortions.

If you put a Winter in the bridge, you'll have more diversity because they clean up so well with the volume knob and you will have infinite cosmic power for daaaaaaaaaaaaaaays.
 
Re: Black Winter/YJM Or Backouts for Metal?

Rand-O-Monium said:
Is there a BW s/c for the neck pos?
Click to expand...

No, but I imagine the Custom Shop could wind one up.

Then again, the Black Winters are about as bright as your average single coil to begin with, so a single coil Black Winter would be really really bright.
 
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Re: Black Winter/YJM Or Backouts for Metal?

you've definitely come to Duncan at the right time, given the recent deluge of pickups based on metal-sounding names.

not sure how they sound, but people will be impressed with the rad names.
 
Re: Black Winter/YJM Or Backouts for Metal?

Hey Darth! :) Assuming you are the same Darth from Kramer forums.

http://www.kramerforum.com/forum/showthread.php?59975-87-Kramer-Stagemaster-Refinish-Project

I think I have decided on the Blackouts, a set of white ones for my Kramer.

I already ordered a set of pots and caps for the BW/YJM but I just dont think that passives are going to get me there.

I also have my Carvin CT6 with a custom custom in the bridge and a prails in the neck it does pretty much anything and as you can see from older posts I am just not diggin the JB.

Thanks everyone I will let you know how it goes!
 
Re: Black Winter/YJM Or Backouts for Metal?

Here is a question guys. i noticed that the single coil has a jumper like the metal bridge does. I will obviously be jumping it to match the blackout bridge but do you think it is worth getting a push/pull pot to be able to switch to the lower "passive" style volume? Anyone done this? I can see how it would give a boost if everything is wired in a strat style without the jumper(IE a three pickup strat with all blackouts) what about going the other way. Does the un jumpered lower volume sound different? clearer? warmer? or is it purely volume?
 
Re: Black Winter/YJM Or Backouts for Metal?

Gone_Shootin said:
I haven't played the other pickups mentioned, but I love my Black Winter set.
Click to expand...

I just got the Black Winter set a few days ago, and I switched from the JB SH-4 to these. I have a used 2006 Schecter Blackjack C-1. For some reason, I think the Sh-4's had a more explosive sound when you struck the guitar strings and was more powerful. It seemed to roar more.

Simultaneously I find the JB and Black Winter pickups to sound highly similar.
 
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Re: Black Winter/YJM Or Backouts for Metal?

I love drop C Drop A...looking into Lundgren m7 for my ibanez and Black Winter for my LP.
 
Re: Black Winter/YJM Or Backouts for Metal?

I went with white blackouts thanks guys they will be here this week :)
 
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