blackface delimma.

blueslegend8

blueslegend8

New member
i want a blackface (period). so, i either want to buy a vintage silverface twin reverb or deluxe reverb and restore/blackface mod it, or buy a used vibroverb custom reissue. i know there is going to be more posts on this thread about the restore option but please give me your nonbiased feedback on the vibroverb as well.

Discuss...
 
Re: blackface delimma.

A twin reverb is loud and heavy. That's all I know about this issue, but keep in mind: Loud & Heavy.

That said, B_bent black-faced a vibrolux(?) and Scott knows a bit about amps so I'm sure they'll chime in.
 
Re: blackface delimma.

I'd look for a used Fender Pro Reverb. They are a killer 40 watt two 12" amp...like a two 12 version of the super popular two 10 Vibrolux Reverb. The Vibrolux sells for twice as much as the PR on the vintage market but the PR is essencially the same amp with two 12's instead of two 10's. For whatever reasons, the Pro Reverb is way undervalued and, IMO, the best buy in a used handwired blackface/silverface Fender amp that there is. The 20 watt one 12 blackface Deluxe Reverb is half the amp of a Pro Reverb but goes for twice as much sometimes! I love DR's and use them myself, but still...twice as much $$$ for a DR compared to a PR seems skewed. Lew
 
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Re: blackface delimma.

firebirdV said:
A twin reverb is loud and heavy. That's all I know about this issue, but keep in mind: Loud & Heavy.

That said, B_bent black-faced a vibrolux(?) and Scott knows a bit about amps so I'm sure they'll chime in.
Click to expand...

BBent is actually who i got the idea from. we're local friends and he got me involved on this forum, so i figured id try and get some outside help. and true, it is a vibrolux and it is beautiful.
 
Re: blackface delimma.

Kyle,
I think Lew is really onto something here. A Pro Reverb will set you back less money and produce the sound I think you want. A Twin will be over kill a Deluxe will be under kill and a Vibrolux is not allowed by me :beerchug: . Plus you don't want to spend the $$$$ on a VibroVerb. I also think the whole boutique route is a bad idea. It's just not worth spending 2k+ on a new amp. Heck I wouldn't even pay $1500 for a new BF clone. That's not knocking any of the builders, but IS just my opinion.

You might be able to afford a real BF Pro, but I honestly would find an early 70's SF one and do like I did and spend some time with it and tweak it out to be what you want. You have no idea how attached you will become to the amp that way. Plus old amps have character! Do you remember the day I bought the Lux and showed up and played that gig? It had the original tubes in it, crazy speakers, the po-dunk cord, and the chasis was falling out of the cab. I remember how you and Drizzle were drooling over the tone.

What I am trying to say is that you can get in on that too for pretty cheap and have a vintage amp that's hand wired and sounds freaking incredible all for less than the cost of a new amp.

Like i said, I really like Lew's idea of the Pro. It would be similar to my amp, but with two 12's. i happen to like 10's, but I seriously seeing you playing a 2x12 amp.

Come over this week and I will give you the Vibrolux to take home and play the piss out of. Critique it really good, find what you like and don't like or what you would change. Since you are shy this will be the best thing for you to do. I know you wont sit in my living room and rock like crazy. This way you can hear it in your environment.

let me know what night you're coming over.

EDIT:
I just did an ended auctions search on eBay for Pro Reverbs and saw several ones from the early-mid 70s go in the $5-$800 range. Also there was a BF 1967 that went for $1150!!!!
 
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Re: blackface delimma.

B Bent said:
EDIT:
I just did an ended auctions search on eBay for Pro Reverbs and saw several ones from the early-mid 70s go in the $5-$800 range. Also there was a BF 1967 that went for $1150!!!!
Click to expand...

Amazing isn't it? Why do you suppose the PR is so underappreciated and undervalued? I played one as my main amp for many years...twenty years or so. Only reason I stopped using it is that I play so quietly these days a Deluxe Reverb is more practical. Lew
 
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Re: blackface delimma.

The Pro Reverbs IMHO are bright. NOt all pro's are like that, but I have played tru a few of them that were very bright. I believe thats why they are a lot less than the Deluxe Reverbs are. If you can find one that sounds really good, buy it. They are great amps. I agree with Lew that they are a bargain by comparison to the DR and even the Twin. I own a 67 DR and a 68 Super Reverb. The DR is more usable in a lot of gigging situations than the Twin. The Super has a lot more headroom than the Deluxe and can handle a lot more variety of gigs and types of music. The DR is one of the best blues amps ever! The Super can go from mild blues to metal with the right pedals. The Super has a similar problem that the Twin has. They are very heavy. If you get a SF Twin or a Super leave it unmodded for a while. The reason I say this is there are many Silvers that can be as good and in some cases better than a blackface. Silvers without a Master volume is the way to go. They can be great amps without any mods at all. If you can't find a NON master volume, than modding it to a blackface may be necessary. Most MV silvers sound cheezy.
 
Re: blackface delimma.

Bludave said:
The Pro Reverbs IMHO are bright. NOt all pro's are like that, but I have played tru a few of them that were very bright. I believe thats why they are a lot less than the Deluxe Reverbs are. If you can find one that sounds really good, buy it. They are great amps. I agree with Lew that they are a bargain by comparison to the DR and even the Twin. I own a 67 DR and a 68 Super Reverb. The DR is more usable in a lot of gigging situations than the Twin. The Super has a lot more headroom than the Deluxe and can handle a lot more variety of gigs and types of music. The DR is one of the best blues amps ever! The Super can go from mild blues to metal with the right pedals. The Super has a similar problem that the Twin has. They are very heavy. If you get a SF Twin or a Super leave it unmodded for a while. The reason I say this is there are many Silvers that can be as good and in some cases better than a blackface. Silvers without a Master volume is the way to go. They can be great amps without any mods at all. If you can't find a NON master volume, than modding it to a blackface may be necessary. Most MV silvers sound cheezy.
Click to expand...

The PR just needs good tubes and good speakers. Those from the mid 60's often came with a pair of Jensen C12NA's...fabulous speakers. Those with Utah speakers sound pretty bad now and sounded just as bad 40 years ago! (laugh!) Never been a Utah fan.

Like Bludave, I also like the non master volume silverface Fenders better than the later MV versions.

Regarding the DR, at 20 watts it is perfect for 95% of the gigs that I do where if I brought anything more powerful, I'd be to loud and unable to turn my amp up loud enough to get natural tube overdrive 95% of the time.

I'd rather have a smallish amp that is totally appropriate for the gig 95% of the time, than have a 50 watt or 100 watt amp that's to loud 95% of the time and only appropriate 5% of the time.

But I don't think "to much power" is the reason the PR is undervalued...it's only 40 watts and most guys still have it thier heads that they need 40 or 50 watts minimum to gig. They're wrong, IMO, but since most guys still want 40 or 50 watts minimum, I don't know why the PR isn't more popular.

Maybe guys do hear it as being to bright...but a two 10 Vibrolux Reverb is probably brighter. Don't most people tend to hear 10's as being brighter than 12's? I do.

Lew
 
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Re: blackface delimma.

I won't suggest an amp as far as telling you that you need a Pro Reverb, Deluxe Reverb, Twin Reverb whatever, what I will say is FORGET the Vibroverb reissue...it's VERY overpriced AND underbuilt IMO...

Now, if you'd like, let me know and I'll set it up with Greg and we'll hook up and you can play through my Twin Reverb...it's a 1969 model and has been blackfaced and tweaked by one of the best tube amp techs on the planet...Bruce Collins of Mission Amps. My amp still needs a new cab (and maybe speakers) but you'll get the idea of what a Twin Reverb is all about...between that and Gregs Vibrolux you could get an idea of what power range you want/need and go from there.

I would say that buying a SF Fender and fixing it up to sound and preform it's best is 100% the way to go...in fact based on what I know about your playing style I have a few really cool ideas for you that I think you'd really like...

PM sent...
 
Re: blackface delimma.

Kyle,
Be sure to take me and Christian up on our offers. You have some mad chops that deserve a killer amp. You already have a killer guitar so lets get you set up with a killer amp. I really am almost reconsidering my advise to you at this point. I really do think a Deluxe Reverb would suite you really nicely! The only problem I see is that the silly little things go for over $1000 for an early 70's SF one.

I think Christian is on to something Kyle. I just called him and he told me about what you guys talked about yesterday.
 
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Re: blackface delimma.

B Bent said:
Kyle,
Be sure to take me and Christian up on our offers. You have some mad chops that deserve a killer amp. You already have a killer guitar so lets get you set up with a killer amp. I really am almost reconsidering my advise to you at this point. I really do think a Deluxe Reverb would suite you really nicely! The only problem I see is that the silly little things go for over $1000 for an early 70's SF one.

I think Christian is on to something Kyle. I just called him and he told me about what you guys talked about yesterday.
Click to expand...

im still looking at the deluxe/pro reverb market but now im leaning more towards the vibroverb clone route. all this has gotten me really excited and im trying not to be rash with my decision, even though i want to just go on ebay and buy a BMR and get started with the restore.

the way i see it, my dream amp is a '64 Vibroverb. thats what i've wanted since day one eight years ago when i started playing. A vibroverb clone or "vibroclone" would be closer than anything else i could get my hands on. a deluxe/pro reverb is just gonna keep me GASing for a vibroverb.


so...anyone wanna sell me a bandmaster reverb?:naughty:
 
Re: blackface delimma.

UPDATE:
i just bought a '68 Bandmaster Reverb head. it should arrive in the mail in a few days. The only bad part is now i need a speaker and a cabinet to plug it in to, because Im not gonna be able to play with her when she gets here :dot:
 
Re: blackface delimma.

Hah, beautiful choice. and the most beautiful thing about that choice is if you WANT you can buy an old fender combo cabinet and put that thing in it and have a bandmaster reverb combo! If I remember correctly a Bandmaster reverb chassis will fit into a super reverb or a pro reverb combo cabinet.
 
Re: blackface delimma.

blueslegend8 said:
UPDATE:
i just bought a '68 Bandmaster Reverb head. it should arrive in the mail in a few days. The only bad part is now i need a speaker and a cabinet to plug it in to, because Im not gonna be able to play with her when she gets here :dot:
Click to expand...

That would be a silver. Good choice. The Reverb on those is great. Now look around for a Bassman bottom or better yet a Showman bottom. The showmans came with 2 15" speakers. With the 40 Watts that the bandmaster generates the 15's should allow a huge amount of headroom. Good luck with it, thats a great amp!
 
Re: blackface delimma.

We've (We being myself and Greg) already got an idea cooked up for Kyle reguarding this BMR...should be very cool and in the end I think Kyle will be pretty happy with the amp!

By the way, Kyle you have a PM...
 
Re: blackface delimma.

Pro Reverb---same chassis width as a Twin...
Bandmaster---smaller by about 2 inches...

A clone is a clone...and they usually sound like it. A Vibroverb is a nice little quirky amp for medium volumes but it's not much better than a DR for gigs where you need a little more beam power muscle (had one, sold it).

Anyway, buy the real deal, get the real tone, and if you decide to sell it, you get the real money. There are thousands of late BF/early SF combo amps out there; look around, find one that's 'stressed' (tie-dye grill cloth and Rat Shack speakers, etc), put in some sweat equity, and you have a winner. I saw two BF PR's (a 66 and a 67) for 800 apiece a week ago...they are out there, just not on Fleabay.
 
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