Blade vs. adjustable pole pieces

[Inflames626]

Hey guys,
Why aren't blades more popular relative to pole pieces?

Now, I'm aware that the entire point of pole pieces is they adjust individually. However, in my experience, it's rarely necessary to adjust them very much. At most, a turn or two on problem strings. And even this can be mostly done away with by adjusting each side of pickup, setting up the guitar correctly, or using a tuning temperament that brings out better clarity over even tempered tuning (such as Peterson's strobe tuner recommendations for guitar and bass).

The rationale for the blade is flexibility. Even for people who don't use floating bridges, they may want to switch pickups back and forth between Strat and Gibson spacings, and blades make worrying about bridge spacing unnecessary.

I can understand being super concerned about string volume for someone who plays bluegrass or something like a B bender Tele where you want very specific strings to ring out relative to the others for use during hybrid picking (Brian Setzer comes to mind), but, for me, all string volume sounds even for most mid and high powered pickups in the bridge even when the pickup is lowered completely and the screws are flush.

Am I missing something cool here with the pole pieces? In light of the above, the blade would seem like a better design all around for most players.

Thanks.

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Blade vs. adjustable pole pieces

Technically speaking yes the blades are a better design but poles and screws are vintage correct and what most are familiar with. Guitarist can be a very conservative bunch with their gear both look, performance, and spec wise.

But like you said about not having to worry about string spacing is a big plus in my eyes.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Blade vs. adjustable pole pieces

Technically speaking yes the blades are a better design but poles and screws are vintage correct and what most are familiar with. Guitarist can be a very conservative bunch with their gear both look, performance, and spec wise.

But like you said about not having to worry about string spacing is a big plus in my eyes.

What do you mean by better? Better as in? Is the string spacing thing really that big of a deal? Being many around here will fight to the death that TB vs Sh spacing makes no difference i'm inclined to think not. The big thing is that they are different and thats where i do agree with you about guitarists not liking things to change. Screws and poles since 1955 and we will probably never really see it go away no matter other technical advances made.

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Blade vs. adjustable pole pieces

For me it's better in that I don't have to worry about adjusting pole pieces and not having a vol drop out when bending and they will fit in any 6 string guitar wether it's G or F spaced. As for specific pups the blades may serve a different purpose depending on the design.

A Duncan hotrails and Bill Lawrence L45 both use rails but the rails serve a different purpose on each pup.

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Blade vs. adjustable pole pieces

Blades ARE polepieces. Their function is to concentrate the magnetic field where it will be most useful. Arguably, adjustability is possible on a blade polepiece by cutting into it. Think of the Gibson "Charlie Christian" pickup.

 

[Inflames626]

Re: Blade vs. adjustable pole pieces

For me it's better in that I don't have to worry about adjusting pole pieces and not having a vol drop out when bending and they will fit in any 6 string guitar wether it's G or F spaced. As for specific pups the blades may serve a different purpose depending on the design.

A Duncan hotrails and Bill Lawrence L45 both use rails but the rails serve a different purpose on each pup.

Rockstar216 has a good point. To my knowledge, Bill Lawrence's L500XL was the first pickup to popularize the blade design, and because of that, blades are often associated with the tone of trebly rock and metal ceramic bridge pickups.

Yet some pickups, like my Mick Thomson Blackouts, use blades and Alnico magnets and are voiced rather warm compared to the L500XL. The EMG 85 would probably be in here as well.

I'm not sure how much of a difference bending makes, though, especially at the bridge. If you move something metal around a strong pickup like an Alt 8, you can almost feel the boundaries of the magnetic field. It's pretty wide and strong, and the strings aren't going to move much anyway since they're near the bridge.

I'm thinking pole spacing and bending are going to be most relevant for vintage output neck pickups that are far away from the strings.

Funkfingers has a point as well but I'm mostly thinking about mass produced pickups that don't require painstaking modification.

As an aside:

Are there any true single coil pickups with adjustable pole pieces? I would like to use some Fender singles in my flat necked guitars, but the singles are vintage staggered. I am guessing no due to the design of single coils.

Second, would a blade/rail true single coil make the flat vs. staggered single coil distinction moot by changing the magnetic field so that neck radius doesn't make a difference?

 

[Funkfingers]

Re: Blade vs. adjustable pole pieces

Are there any true single coil pickups with adjustable pole pieces? I would like to use some Fender singles in my flat necked guitars, but the singles are vintage staggered. I am guessing no due to the design of single coils.

Second, would a blade/rail true single coil make the flat vs. staggered single coil distinction moot by changing the magnetic field so that neck radius doesn't make a difference?

G&L makes Stratocaster- and Telecaster-inspired designs with threaded, adjustable polepieces.

 

[Letus]

Re: Blade vs. adjustable pole pieces

It would seem the winner in that is the yet-to-be-invented PATB with adjustable pole screw pieces.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Blade vs. adjustable pole pieces

Rockstar216 has a good point. To my knowledge, Bill Lawrence's L500XL was the first pickup to popularize the blade design

The L500xl was the last of the L500 series to come out.

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Blade vs. adjustable pole pieces

Am I missing something cool here with the pole pieces? In light of the above, the blade would seem like a better design all around for most players.

"Absolute betters" do not exist in the arts of sound engineering, sound design or luthiery. There are preferences for certain tones, and means to get there.

 

[Inflames626]

Re: Blade vs. adjustable pole pieces

"Absolute betters" do not exist in the arts of sound engineering, sound design or luthiery. There are preferences for certain tones, and means to get there.

That's true. But there are more and less efficient ways to get to the same result.

 

[Inflames626]

Re: Blade vs. adjustable pole pieces

True, Edgecrusher, but the L500XL is probably the most popular version and the one that sells the most. How many amateur musicians buying mass produced pickups were aware of blade pickups prior to Dimebag popularizing that model in the early 90s?

I used EMGs for years before realizing they were blades because I never thought about what was under the black plastic cap.

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Blade vs. adjustable pole pieces

Weren't the hot rails around in the 80s or no?

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Blade vs. adjustable pole pieces

It would seem the winner in that is the yet-to-be-invented PATB with adjustable pole screw pieces.

They would be pointless I think as the poles run parallel to the strings and not directly under them.

The old version of the Q-Tuners had a similar design but the latest version lean more to the EMG look.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Blade vs. adjustable pole pieces

True, Edgecrusher, but the L500XL is probably the most popular version and the one that sells the most. How many amateur musicians buying mass produced pickups were aware of blade pickups prior to Dimebag popularizing that model in the early 90s?

I used EMGs for years before realizing they were blades because I never thought about what was under the black plastic cap.

Now your arguing when something became popular? Dont forget that Nuno had a hand in the L500's popularity either. I remember the OBL versions of those pickups kicking around for years before the dimebags influence was really felt.

 

[9unslin9er]

Re: Blade vs. adjustable pole pieces

Are there any true single coil pickups with adjustable pole pieces? I would like to use some Fender singles in my flat necked guitars, but the singles are vintage staggered. I am guessing no due to the design of single coils.

I would assume since the Hot Stack is a humcanceling stacked single coil, that a true single coil version would look identical, if not a bit shorter in size. Likewise for the Parallel Axis stack.

I'm sure you could make any rail pickup sound like one with poles assuming you switch your magnet to a weaker one.

I think the prevalence of ceramic mags in dual bladed single-coil sized humbuckers is they simply don't have the same juice as a full size.

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Blade vs. adjustable pole pieces

True, Edgecrusher, but the L500XL is probably the most popular version and the one that sells the most. How many amateur musicians buying mass produced pickups were aware of blade pickups prior to Dimebag popularizing that model in the early 90s?

I used EMGs for years before realizing they were blades because I never thought about what was under the black plastic cap.

Now your arguing when something became popular? Dont forget that Nuno had a hand in the L500's popularity either. I remember the OBL versions of those pickups kicking around for years before the dimebags influence was really felt.

Not only Nuno but before them Joe and Brad from Aerosmith were using the L90 and the guitarist from Blue Oyster Cult and I think even George Lynch had some BLs at one point in time.

But to get back to the OPs question none of the guys who used those bladed pickups really cared that they had a blade over poles and screws.

 

[DreX]

Re: Blade vs. adjustable pole pieces

I think blades are cool on a modern looking guitars (even if it's a modern looking Strat, Les Paul, etc.) but the old sun burst classic designs and the like were thought out aesthetically with the idea that the pickups featured pole pieces. They have a striped look to them that doesn't fit the classic aesthetic, for the most part. If Leo Fender or Ted McCarty had intended the guitars they designed to have rails or blades, I think they would have designed other aspects of the guitar differently as well to balance out the overall appearance.

Nowadays when people install non-standard pickups, it seems as though they see the pickups as a thing unto themselves and don't even consider how they mix with the rest of the guitar's appearance. It's the only explanation I can come up with why some people can put a Little '59, a Lace Sensor and a stock single coil all in the same Strat and not think twice about how it looks in the end.

I think SD hit it out of their park with their single coil sized humbuckers with the pole pieces, especially their newer design that doesn't require modifying the pick guard, or feature exposed coil tape. It's an excellent compromise. There's actually is a blade inside those pickups which the screw pieces drive down into, though, so it's not just screws/slugs that carry the magnetic field upwards through the coil... sort of a hybrid.

 

[Inflames626]

Re: Blade vs. adjustable pole pieces

DreX has a great point about aesthetics. Also, I think the ceramic/blade combination has come to be closely associated with rock and metal. If the blade is covered, it doesn't matter so much.

The point of the original post was to highlight that blades are much easier to use if a) you're experimenting with pickups in a test guitar b) switching pickups in and out often c) not sure whether you're going to use them in a G or F spaced axe and d) you don't want to buy the same pickup in different spacings (unless you want, say, a 2 JB axe on a Floyded guitar).

To Edge, when most people think of a bladed pickup, they think of Dime, and he's sold a lot of them for a variety of companies. I'm talking about kids between 16-20 who are going to be visiting Guitar Center who have cash to spend and probably don't know who Nuno is.

I can't say one way or the other about rail single coils. I generally stay away from hum canceling singles because I find them bland compared to true singles (very unimpressed with my STK1 Classic Stack). Could anybody give me some advice about them?

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Blade vs. adjustable pole pieces

To Edge, when most people think of a bladed pickup, they think of Dime, and he's sold a lot of them for a variety of companies. I'm talking about kids between 16-20 who are going to be visiting Guitar Center who have cash to spend and probably don't know who Nuno is.

Its dangerous to speak for "most people" I didnt know you had spent so much time interviewing 16-20 year olds at guitar center.