Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps

Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps

After the first song they played my wife turned to me and said my breasts were jiggling that was so loud. I just started laughing as we left the club.

That alone is a great defense for the use of large amps!!! hahaha

Actually that was all the club PA that night, it was insanely loud in that room.
 
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps

I think both articles made a compelling argument. I recommend for ppl to read both and decide what they need. I do have comment though ........
Stacks don't have to be loud. They have a volume knob.
Exactly, just because it's a stack doesn't mean it's cranked to ten all the time.
 
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps

So, big stack and playing loud to get that metal tone is not good.... an opinion coming from a blues player. Great.
 
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps

There are so many factors involved in choosing the right amp for a given task that there can never be one right answer for all applications, and I think both of our learned bloggists would agree with that statement to some extent. Musical style, stage size, venue size, intra-band balance, PA size...they all contribute to the factors that need to be taken into account when deciding on wattage and cabinet selection. Personally, I have amps ranging from 5 to 100 watts, but for most of my current work, I settle on an 18w, single 10 combo. The reason I started using that amp 10 years ago was quite simple. The vast majority of my work involves interstate air travel, but not at the scale where there is a semi full of gear traveling in advance by road. When I have toured in those sort of acts, I have used my 100w 2x12 combo with a 2x12 extension cab underneath it. Somebody else was carrying it. Somebody else was setting it up. I travelled with my backpack and a suitcase.

With the act I work with now, we carry the essentials of our backline by air. After a few months of being at the mercy of hired backline and its inherent inconsistencies, I started carrying my Fender Super Champ, and found ways to make it work. I keep it close to me onstage, regardless of the stage size. Contrary to the common misconception, a larger or 'outdoor' stage can actually mean greater separation, and therefore a small amp can work fine, under the same circumstances in which a small amp can work at all. For example, here's me and my Super Champ at an outdoor gig to 16,000 people, admittedly with about 80,000 watts of line array out front.

22fdef26.jpg


The irony here is that the same amp would be absolutely useless in a small venue with only a vocal PA and a very loud band. It would be completely swamped. But under these conditions, once that little amp and its single speaker see the front of house system, it is absolutely f*****g huge. Forget any theories you may have about the frequencies your cabinet is producing. Under close mic'ing conditions, even a 10" speaker can produce the full range required for virtually any style other than the doomiest doom, once it hits the PA. Anyone who has seen Jeff Beck in the past few years may have noticed that only one of his Fender Pro Juniors was mic'd. In fact, many of the frequencies you might be vibing on straight from the cabinet will be eliminated by a good FOH engineer, once again, style dependant, of course. But this is only part of the equation. For many players, it is onstage that they need their thump, whether it is being high pass filtered out the front or not. In those cases, the small combo just won't do the trick. You will need to use your guile and tone shaping skills to meet in the middle with your FOH engineer, to get what you need without compromising the FOH mix.

In my case, with the styles I'm currently playing, none of that is necessary. But if I go and do a fill in for somebody in a bar somewhere with a loudish band, I won't be taking my Super Champ. It will either be a 30 or 100w amp, just so there is some headroom in my system to get big enough clean sounds when required. Even in my little slice of the world, there is no one right answer. Multiply that out to the vast permutations of playing situations, and we could talk around this in circles for all eternity. Use what you need.




Cheers......................................... wahwah
 
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps

So, big stack and playing loud to get that metal tone is not good.... an opinion coming from a blues player. Great.

I don't think it has anything to do with what style of music you choose to play, its about "manageable" volume. Stage volume in particular. About a year ago Peter Stroud (Cheryl Crow's guitar player) was on this forum answering questions. So I asked him what amps he was using and to be honest I don't recall the brand(although I think it was 65 amps) but I was more interested in how much wattage he was using. He said that he used an 18W & a 32W amp regardless of the facility. He was more concerned with a manageable stage volume. For me its about being able to hear what the other guys are doing. When you are playing in a band its about knowing when to play & when NOT to play & this is extremely difficult if you can't hear what the other musicians are doing. A loud drummer can definitely affect the volume that the band is playing at. But if each musician understands playing dynamics its really not that hard to play at a manageable volume, get a good sound and NOT blow the windows out of the place. Keep in mind that Peter is playing on a high level professional level & has very high end equipment and of course really good sound people to help manage what the band on stage hears as well as what the audience hears.
 
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps

I don't think it has anything to do with what style of music you choose to play, its about "manageable" volume. Stage volume in particular. About a year ago Peter Stroud (Cheryl Crow's guitar player) was on this forum answering questions. So I asked him what amps he was using and to be honest I don't recall the brand(although I think it was 65 amps) but I was more interested in how much wattage he was using. He said that he used an 18W & a 32W amp regardless of the facility. He was more concerned with a manageable stage volume. For me its about being able to hear what the other guys are doing. When you are playing in a band its about knowing when to play & when NOT to play & this is extremely difficult if you can't hear what the other musicians are doing. A loud drummer can definitely affect the volume that the band is playing at. But if each musician understands playing dynamics its really not that hard to play at a manageable volume, get a good sound and NOT blow the windows out of the place. Keep in mind that Peter is playing on a high level professional level & has very high end equipment and of course really good sound people to help manage what the band on stage hears as well as what the audience hears.

I agree. The beauty of making music with other musicians is the way we all "dance" together and respond to each other's creativity. Especially in jazz, but really, in any musical style. My bass player, or keyboard player or harp player is not going to play exactly what I would have played if I were playing his instrument. So I have to adjust my playing to his or her playing, the same way he or she has to adjust a little to my playing. And that's a beautiful thing...assuming you like each other's playing. ;) It's where the spark comes from that takes the music to a fresh place every night - that need to respond to the playing and ideas and creativity of every member of the band who's contributing to the whole.

You've got to be able to hear each other to do that.

You've got to be able to hear...period!
 
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Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps


That's a cool shot. They said in interviews that the beauty of that system was that it was not too loud onstage, but if you walked 200 or 300 feet away, it sounded exactly the same, with no loss of volume.

It truly was the first big touring PA.

And it was paid for by tripping hippies.
 
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps

Yep, too many knuckleheads seem to think that a good time can only come from hearing damage.
 
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps

I'm a big fan of low wattage amps, and I play punk/metal/hard rock with my band. I use a Blackstar HT-5 and 1x12 cab loaded with a Vintage 30 speaker for most rehearsals and gigs, and never have had any issues with lack of volume. There's tw of us playing guitar and my singer uses a 20 watt amp. I never use the clean channel, I just roll the volume knob back on my guitar for clean tones.
 
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps

To me the max value is 22... Anything louder is sorta not manageable on the stage. It simply is too loud for the within the band thing.

Yet, I am not a fan of low wattage amps. I love the lows and deep tone that high wattage amps can do.

So I am a big fan of using attenuators...

:)

Decreasing sorta ~4.5dB from a 50W monster, turns it into a beefy amp with power between 15-18W. And that is exactly what I am doing. L-Pad attenuators (Dr.Z. AirBrake or BrakeLite kinda)... I'd say I am getting the best of two worlds. With that DrZ type of attenuators (actuall it was Ken Firsher, as far as I know, who started the use of such attenuators - or maybe this is how it is perceived... but anyways) there is no tone loss for that level of attenuation. Of course if you go higher to 12dB and all, there is a bit loss and weird compression poping up. But at stage volumes, I'd say there is no problems you know as far as tone is concerned.

B :)
 
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Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps

I've been considering an attenuator for my 40 watt combo (which is still too loud for most gigs!)...do they do any damage to the amp? Do they make the tubes fail more quickly?
 
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps

as we all know wahwah always knocks it out of the park :) that dude is a monster player.

most stages just don't have the firepower for the big iron monster 100 watters to be cranked, and that is just the way it is. You can't hear the singer, the bassist, etc etc... I hate listening to preamp or a distortion pedal through a clean signal, I like cranked tube tone always! I am a downtuned heavy rock guy with a few exceptions.

hopefully in the near future when we finally befriend alienz, even small venues will have awesome inexpensive PAs and musicians just gotta bring their axefx-25 which is the size of a usb disk :banana:

I see that Stephen Carpenter is now using axefxII and some say he does not even have a stack or a cab any more, just listens to the wedges live. HIS NEW ALBUM KOI NO YOKAN is tonefully AMAZING :)


http://www.uberproaudio.com/who-pla...ephen-carpenter-guitar-gear-rig-and-equipment

http://fractalaudio.com/artists.php

Deftones
Stephen Carpenter & Sergio Vega

We recently purchased Axe-Fx units and as you know, it is a transcendental experience... especially for those who love developing tones with movement and textures to use for composition as we do. We feel as though we found a life partner in this system!

_______________________________________________________________________________

apparently Periphery is not using amps or cabs live either any more:

http://iheartguitarblog.com/2010/05/interview-peripherys-misha-mansoor.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periphery_(band)

http://mixdownmag.com.au/2011/07/15/periphery/

"In an interview with Mixdown magazine, Misha Mansoor discussed the band's live sound; "I think the tone quest ended for us with the Axe-FX. We now go direct. We don't use amps any more, we don't use cabs, we don't use pedals. We just have an Axe-FX and a Fractal MFC foot controller...and we just go directly into the board with that," says Mansoor."

"I used the only thing I could really get away with: I live in an apartment and I have to record silently for the most part. Fractal Audio Axe-FX Ultra saved the day. That piece of gear is the single most revolutionary thing ever. If there’s one single piece of gear that I’d take to a deserted island, other than a guitar because it’d be useless without a guitar, it’s that! Absolutely just saved our album, made sure that the guitar tones on there would fit the standard that I wanted, without going to a crazy studio, without having to mic amps. And the Axe-FX on the album has no processing on it whatsoever. You’re hearing exactly what’s coming out of it. There are a few parts that we quad-tracked for effect, but for the most part it’s just one track per side. It’s amazing how transparent the unit is."
 
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Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps

Well, I think everyone has stated a lot of good points. I agree with lots of them. I have amps from a 15W Tiny Terror to a 60 watt Marshall 1/2 stack. My favorite is my 68 Super reverb. I just this evening came from getting together with some new guys for a new project. We played at the drummers house, I brought my Marshall head as he had a 2x12 cabinet there I could use. The OD sounds were good but clean this TSL just really blows compared to the fender. Sterile is the word I would use. Anyway I think the Super would be perfect but I don't want to haul it around all the time. it's too damn heavy. So I can see myself picking up a Deluxe reissue sooner than later. They are such good amps and man they aren't too heavy. And they have a nice full tone unlike many smaller amps.
And I love the dead. I saw them over 25 times and they ALWAYS had incredible PA systems. Just crystal clear with HIGH fidelity!
 
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Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps

I think small amps can sound just as good as larger amplifiers. My '65 RI Twin-Reverb is way too heavy to carry around so I prefer smaller, great-sounding amps.
 

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Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps

I'm a believer in 50 watt amps, attenuators, and 2 oversized 1x12 cabs. Overall this allows enough headroom (for me at least), enough volume to keep up with drummers, ability to practive and record at tolerable volumes without tone loss (I hear zero tone difference when dropping 4 or 8 dbs), just as big a sound as a 4x12 (I think bigger, although not quite as tight (ok with me); marshall and mesa 4x12's in by basement to compare), and a light, narrow package for moving around. I'm not gigging, but when I do I expect the flexibility to match venues and sound setups.

In general (because there are pretty heavy 50 watters out there), 50 vs 100 watt differs in size in weight due to the bigger chassis and extra power tubes, etc. And 4x12's are a pita moving and loading alone. I can easily carry both my 50 watt amps in one trip and both my cabs in one trip, without help or having to roll anything around. I freakin hate moving gear...lol...even in the house at the moment, so I put a high value on moveability.

And if 2 cabs are too big I can just use one. Overall very happy with the setup. Hopefully I'll be gigging with it sometime soon so I can confirm the rest in that setting.
 
Re: Blog: In Defense of Small, Low Wattage Amps

I've been playing since about 1964 and the problem I've had my entire career is not being able to turn my amp up enough on the gig to get the natural break up we guitarists crave.

Having enough clean headroom has NEVER been an issue. NEVER!

I play louder at home than I've been able able to play at most bar gigs.

You get out on the gig and you quickly find out that you just can't get away with the volume that you practice and rehearse at - you have to turn down.

For me, two smaller amps are the ticket.

I used to recommend Deluxes and Deluxe Reverbs here on this forum and others and get laughed at. The truth is, even a 22 watt Deluxe is to loud for most gigs if you turn it up passed 5...and that's just when it starts sounding good.

Guitarists tend to play to loud. It's the only instrument that needs to have the amp turned up until it starts to distort in order to get the tone we guitarists love.

But many other musicians hate playing with guitarists because guitarists can't get their tone unless they do play to loud for most other musicians!

Again: the answer is smaller amps.

Right now, I'm playing through a pair of 15 watt Princeton Reverbs because my two Deluxe Reverbs are to loud. :banghead:

I've got to guess that most of the resistance to using smaller amps is coming from players like Metal Maniac who have have never gigged or rarely gig. Because once you start gigging in bars you'll quickly find out that the owner, the bartender, the waitresses and even other musicians are going to tell you to turn that dam guitar down.
 
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