Board settings for mic'd amp question.

[guitarSQUIRELL]

At my home church, we just started mic'ing my AC-15 with an SM57. We are using an Allen & Heath iLive console and the Allen & Heath ME in ear monitor system. I'm having some trouble getting a correct EQ to my ears. My amp is set up to sound like I want, but once the signal is retransmitted to my ear monitors, everything is extremely bright and I have pulled the ME monitors LO frequency up to boost the lows in my ears. I'm thinking that the signal I am getting in my ears is pre-effect from the board (I may be wrong about this).
My question for the masses is: What would be the correct way to set the EQ on the FOH board console to get the same sound my amp is producing in my ears? Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Board settings for mic'd amp question.

Do you know what your amp actually sounds like in the PA? The problem you're describing sounds more like a mic placement problem than console EQ.

 

[guitarSQUIRELL]

Re: Board settings for mic'd amp question.

Yes. From what I've heard in the house speakers, everything sounds fine. The mic is set off center closer to the outer edge of the speaker and off axis. We had the board EQ'd flat for my channel and had our sound engineer work his magic last Monday. What he did I have no idea.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Board settings for mic'd amp question.

Also depending on how clean you're playing, an SM57 may not be the best mic for the job. I'm speaking from a recording perspective, but I can't imagine using an SM57 to record a clean guitar part. My first choice would be a large diaphragm condenser provided that I'm working in a good sounding room. If I were looking to minimize room sound, I'd go for something like a SM7B or Sennheiser MD421U5 (I find the newer MD421 mkII to be piercingly bright). If the mic also needed to be inexpensive, my next choice would be a Sennheiser e906 with the voicing switch set to 'dark'. That will get 80-90% of the 421U5 tone at just over half the price.

 

[guitarSQUIRELL]

Re: Board settings for mic'd amp question.

The amp itself is sitting in a homemade box with sound isolation foam, ported, ventilation fans. The amp is set clean right on the edge of breakup.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Board settings for mic'd amp question.

Yes. From what I've heard in the house speakers, everything sounds fine. The mic is set off center closer to the outer edge of the speaker and off axis. We had the board EQ'd flat for my channel and had our sound engineer work his magic last Monday. What he did I have no idea.

In that case I'd want to know what your mixer channel sounds like dry and EQ bypassed. Without knowing what your engineer did to the FOH mix it could be difficult to fix your monitors. Placing the mic off axis will boost midrange, so that's something to keep in mind. Instead of boosting lows in your monitors, have you tried cutting highs?

 

[guitarSQUIRELL]

Re: Board settings for mic'd amp question.

Actually I have. My LOs are at a 12; MIDs are at a 2; and HIGHs are at -4. One of our main issues could be that we have thousands of dollars in sound equipment and have volunteers that run them. No one that is professionally qualified does it.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Board settings for mic'd amp question.

Actually I have. My LOs are at a 12; MIDs are at a 2; and HIGHs are at -4. One of our main issues could be that we have thousands of dollars in sound equipment and have volunteers that run them. No one that is professionally qualified does it.

Unfortunately, you're probably right about that. Do you have access to the church and sound equipment to be able to work on this issue? Also try to find user manuals for your console and monitor system so that you can learn how they work.

I just realized I haven't asked yet, but how does the rest of your monitor mix sound? I don't think it's too likely, but your guitar could sound bright and thin relative to the rest of the monitor mix if it were out of phase somehow.

 

[guitarSQUIRELL]

Re: Board settings for mic'd amp question.

I don't have access to to anything unless our media director lets me in to do any adjusting. But then he has me play some chords and lead lines while he works his magic. The rest of the monitor mix sounds amazing, until I hit my Distortion pedal and my Mad Professor Golden Cello. That's when my ears are WAY to bright.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Board settings for mic'd amp question.

I don't have access to to anything unless our media director lets me in to do any adjusting. But then he has me play some chords and lead lines while he works his magic. The rest of the monitor mix sounds amazing, until I hit my Distortion pedal and my Mad Professor Golden Cello. That's when my ears are WAY to bright.

So your guitar sounds fine until you hit your OD / distortion pedal(s)? Do you notice a similar effect in the FOH mix? This is just a guess, but your off-axis mic may be the culprit here. That mic technique tends to emphasize midrange, and a midrangey OD may push too much upper mid and lead to a harsh tone. I'm not saying you need to leave it that way, but try changing the mic to on-axis and see if the problem is at least less severe.

I admit that not being familiar with your console and monitor controller is doing me no favors here. The only other thing I can think of is to find out what sort of "magic" your media director is using on the FOH mix and try to duplicate it for your monitors.

 

[guitarSQUIRELL]

Re: Board settings for mic'd amp question.

I can't tell honestly because I'm usually wearing my in ears. So what you're saying is the mic should be directly facing the speaker instead? That can be done easily and I can try that. Also I must add that the mic head is touching the mesh on the from of the amp as well.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Board settings for mic'd amp question.

I can't tell honestly because I'm usually wearing my in ears. So what you're saying is the mic should be directly facing the speaker instead? That can be done easily and I can try that. Also I must add that the mic head is touching the mesh on the from of the amp as well.

If possible, try taking your in ears out for a second to see what you sounds like FOH. Ideally use a long cable to get out to where the audience is and listen from there. Regarding your microphone, I typically don't mic off-axis unless it's a secondary mic on the cab, or if I need the extra midrange. Off-axis micing is one of the tricks Jimmy Page used BITD to make his Tele sound more like a Les Paul.

Regarding having the mic right on the grill, that can cause something called proximity effect which boosts low end. If the increased lows are too much, either move the microphone back a few inches or maybe try using the low cut on your console.

 

[guitarSQUIRELL]

Re: Board settings for mic'd amp question.

If possible, try taking your in ears out for a second to see what you sounds like FOH. Ideally use a long cable to get out to where the audience is and listen from there. Regarding your microphone, I typically don't mic off-axis unless it's a secondary mic on the cab, or if I need the extra midrange. Off-axis micing is one of the tricks Jimmy Page used BITD to make his Tele sound more like a Les Paul.

Regarding having the mic right on the grill, that can cause something called proximity effect which boosts low end. If the increased lows are too much, either move the microphone back a few inches or maybe try using the low cut on your console.

I go to,or row morning before work to rework a ground loop buzz we found and then do a sound check and I'm gonna move the mic and listen to the house and see what I can come up with.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Board settings for mic'd amp question.

Just remember that the sound will be quite different in an empty house.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Board settings for mic'd amp question.

Just remember that the sound will be quite different in an empty house.

Thanks TO. Can't believe I forgot about that. Either way, another perspective on the sounds almost always helps.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Board settings for mic'd amp question.

If there's room in your iso box you might also try backing the mic off a couple of inches. Having it right up touching the grill is punchy but also extra bright. 2"-4" inches back ought to give you a slightly "bigger" tone that isn't quite so present.

Regarding the OD/distortions being more troublesome than your basic tone: it might help to roll back the tone controls on your OD pedals a little. Sometimes what sounds like a slight adjustment to your ears can make a surprisingly big difference to a mic.

 

[guitarSQUIRELL]

Re: Board settings for mic'd amp question.

Just remember that the sound will be quite different in an empty house.

True. Each body in the room will "Soak" up some sound and will need to be compensated for....We run anywhere between 6-790 on any given Sunday Morning and we have 2 services.

If there's room in your iso box you might also try backing the mic off a couple of inches. Having it right up touching the grill is punchy but also extra bright. 2"-4" inches back ought to give you a slightly "bigger" tone that isn't quite so present.

Regarding the OD/distortions being more troublesome than your basic tone: it might help to roll back the tone controls on your OD pedals a little. Sometimes what sounds like a slight adjustment to your ears can make a surprisingly big difference to a mic.

Unfortunately, there isnt any more room in the box to move it back any. I went yesterday and readjusted the mic to where the head is pointing directly at the speaker instead of being off axis. I have a new instrument cable coming in today that is replacing a troublesome speaker cable we ran, so maybe I can get a minute with just me an the FOH to see what it sounds like.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Board settings for mic'd amp question.

If it sounds great out front, then the FOH guy is doing his job out there. IEMs sound brighter for sure (unless you are using multiple drivers). Don't mess with the mix out front. Either EQ just the monitor mix, play with one IEM out of your ear, or EQ the mix sent to your monitor.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Board settings for mic'd amp question.

Also see if the mixer has a phase inversion button for the mic. Make sure he's not pushing that button when you kick on the OD. Definitely hear the whole spectrum of tones you're going to use through the FOH.

However, if, as you say, everything sounds great until you add the dirt, then it's either the pedals or the soundguy is doing something stupid when he sees your foot move.

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: Board settings for mic'd amp question.

I have a new instrument cable coming in today that is replacing a troublesome speaker cable we ran,

Don't use instrument (shielded) cables for speaker cables (unshielded). For any amp to speaker connection, use or make proper speaker cables. Use all shielded cables on the input side of the amp.