J
Jessie's ghost
Guest
Re: Body wood: Alder vs Mahogany for hard rock & metal?
Lots of rhetoric, no science.
Bored now.
Lots of rhetoric, no science.
Bored now.
Body wood: Alder vs Mahogany for hard rock & metal?
- Thread starter Chuck_Norris
- Start date
CTN
The Drama Dude
Re: Body wood: Alder vs Mahogany for hard rock & metal?
Jer, I think you're overestimating the amount of unobtainable parts/craftsmanship/woods/whatever that went into early guitars. You should read that interview with Seth Lover that Ed Hunter posted. It's shocking how much of a glaring lack of consistency there was in the early days.
Jer, I think you're overestimating the amount of unobtainable parts/craftsmanship/woods/whatever that went into early guitars. You should read that interview with Seth Lover that Ed Hunter posted. It's shocking how much of a glaring lack of consistency there was in the early days.
Edgecrusher
New member
Re: Body wood: Alder vs Mahogany for hard rock & metal?
very accurate generalities? :eyecrazy: you crack me up you seriously do
btw your off base hes the one thats saying all woods sound the same if what your saying is true then you agree with me and not him.
very accurate generalities? :eyecrazy: you crack me up you seriously do
btw your off base hes the one thats saying all woods sound the same if what your saying is true then you agree with me and not him.
MetalManiac
Li'l Junior Member
Re: Body wood: Alder vs Mahogany for hard rock & metal?
Oh..okay..I mean "very general accuracies.". Better?
Oh..okay..I mean "very general accuracies.". Better?
Jackson Distortion
New member
Re: Body wood: Alder vs Mahogany for hard rock & metal?
It really doesn't matter as I can technically find a fault with all woods and builds.
It really doesn't matter as I can technically find a fault with all woods and builds.
xxxplorer
New member
Re: Body wood: Alder vs Mahogany for hard rock & metal?
as EVH says... if it sounds good it is good. Period. End of story. I have played first act guitars from wally world that sounded pretty darn good. Played a few gibsons that sucked. When you stop obsessing and start playing, it is great. Freedom happens.
as EVH says... if it sounds good it is good. Period. End of story. I have played first act guitars from wally world that sounded pretty darn good. Played a few gibsons that sucked. When you stop obsessing and start playing, it is great. Freedom happens.
Edgecrusher
New member
Re: Body wood: Alder vs Mahogany for hard rock & metal?
I think your missing my meaning. If I know something very accurately i dont need to make generalities. You make generalities when there is lots of variation or inaccuracies if you will.
I'm with you that we do know in general how woods will respond but being wood is a natural product there will always be some amount of variation.
I think your missing my meaning. If I know something very accurately i dont need to make generalities. You make generalities when there is lots of variation or inaccuracies if you will.
I'm with you that we do know in general how woods will respond but being wood is a natural product there will always be some amount of variation.
Quencho092
New member
Re: Body wood: Alder vs Mahogany for hard rock & metal?
On the money. Setup and assembly are #1, if it plays and feels good, a half decent musician will be able to make it SOUND good....
I've played many LP's that are much brighter than my strat, and even twangy like a Tele when you set the controls right. All guitar types can be all over the tone spectrum depending on pickups, pot values, caps, and amps, I don't think woods on a plank guitar will make it sound worlds apart from another well set up guitar with everything else the same.
What makes these honduran/brazilian wood cuts so favorable? is it because these woods actually produce different sounds in an acoustic guitar, thus it must make a world of a difference in a non resonant slab o wood guitar as well? Or are we just basing their awesomeness on tradition rather than measurable/noticeable tones?
If Page used a poplar LP, or a korina Tele, we would never in a million years be able to guess the woods by ear, PERIOD. If you used a frequency analyzer and put the results up against 'tone wood charts' that could somehow predict the ballpark tones, you would still be off because the other variables in recording are far more powerful and influential.
I personally don't get any gratification from worshipping tone woods, I'd rather focus on things that actually affect tone. And if choosing between an alder or mahogany guitar, I would pick the guitar that plays better and sounds better, the wood type would play no role in swaying my decision. We're not buying a cello or a viola here, we're talking about solid body guitars that are essentially useless in an acoustic setting.
"Hmm the alder plays like sh*t but I read that alder gets more articulate clean tones according to warmoth and 'tone wood experts' on various sites so I'll choose that over the mahogany..." if this notion seriously crosses your mind and influences your decision in choosing a guitar more than the actual playing experience, then you deserve to get ripped off. ...:soapbox::soapbox:.:soapbox::soapbox::soapbox:
On the money. Setup and assembly are #1, if it plays and feels good, a half decent musician will be able to make it SOUND good....
I've played many LP's that are much brighter than my strat, and even twangy like a Tele when you set the controls right. All guitar types can be all over the tone spectrum depending on pickups, pot values, caps, and amps, I don't think woods on a plank guitar will make it sound worlds apart from another well set up guitar with everything else the same.
What makes these honduran/brazilian wood cuts so favorable? is it because these woods actually produce different sounds in an acoustic guitar, thus it must make a world of a difference in a non resonant slab o wood guitar as well? Or are we just basing their awesomeness on tradition rather than measurable/noticeable tones?
If Page used a poplar LP, or a korina Tele, we would never in a million years be able to guess the woods by ear, PERIOD. If you used a frequency analyzer and put the results up against 'tone wood charts' that could somehow predict the ballpark tones, you would still be off because the other variables in recording are far more powerful and influential.
I personally don't get any gratification from worshipping tone woods, I'd rather focus on things that actually affect tone. And if choosing between an alder or mahogany guitar, I would pick the guitar that plays better and sounds better, the wood type would play no role in swaying my decision. We're not buying a cello or a viola here, we're talking about solid body guitars that are essentially useless in an acoustic setting.
"Hmm the alder plays like sh*t but I read that alder gets more articulate clean tones according to warmoth and 'tone wood experts' on various sites so I'll choose that over the mahogany..." if this notion seriously crosses your mind and influences your decision in choosing a guitar more than the actual playing experience, then you deserve to get ripped off. ...:soapbox::soapbox:.:soapbox::soapbox::soapbox:
Re: Body wood: Alder vs Mahogany for hard rock & metal?
Since we are talking wood, maybe you could say you are board?
Sorry, couldnt help it..
Since we are talking wood, maybe you could say you are board?
Sorry, couldnt help it..
Re: Body wood: Alder vs Mahogany for hard rock & metal?
I cant say one is distinctly better than the other.. Ive heard all kinda stuff done on all kinda guitars.. I do like chugging on a mahog plank like an explorer or LP and I like the a singing lead played on my kramer pacer
I cant say one is distinctly better than the other.. Ive heard all kinda stuff done on all kinda guitars.. I do like chugging on a mahog plank like an explorer or LP and I like the a singing lead played on my kramer pacer
Andrew Lamprecht
Minion of One
Re: Body wood: Alder vs Mahogany for hard rock & metal?
Either can work.... depends on the feel/sound you want....
Either can work.... depends on the feel/sound you want....
Edgecrusher
New member
Re: Body wood: Alder vs Mahogany for hard rock & metal?
What you need to do is head down to your nearest GC somewhere that has a half dozen or so american standard strats on the shelf. Guitars that are usually all alike minus the color then sit down and play each one. If what your saying is true then they should all sound 100% identical.
But my money is on that they will sound similar but not identical.
What you need to do is head down to your nearest GC somewhere that has a half dozen or so american standard strats on the shelf. Guitars that are usually all alike minus the color then sit down and play each one. If what your saying is true then they should all sound 100% identical.
But my money is on that they will sound similar but not identical.
jake_xms3_punk
New member
JollyRoger523
New member
I've played a variety between some of the cheapest of cheapies to a few high end guitars. Despite their differences in quality of build and components they ALL sounded like guitars.
jpage
New member
Re: Body wood: Alder vs Mahogany for hard rock & metal?
I've had a lot of Les Pauls and I could tell which one each was blindfolded, and most had the same neck profile. Could a listener? Probably not. You think seriously that anyone could distinguish between a PG, a 59 and a Seth in a Les Paul? Even the best, here on a pickup forum for cripes sake, wouldnt be able to do that live, never mind on a recording--especially with someone like Page who broke all of the rules in the studio. Yet we all know that there are subtle differences between these pickups and we chase those differences because WE can FEEL them when we play. The same goes for tone woods--just because you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between two different slabs of Mahogany on a record doesn't mean that there aren't any.
I've had a lot of Les Pauls and I could tell which one each was blindfolded, and most had the same neck profile. Could a listener? Probably not. You think seriously that anyone could distinguish between a PG, a 59 and a Seth in a Les Paul? Even the best, here on a pickup forum for cripes sake, wouldnt be able to do that live, never mind on a recording--especially with someone like Page who broke all of the rules in the studio. Yet we all know that there are subtle differences between these pickups and we chase those differences because WE can FEEL them when we play. The same goes for tone woods--just because you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between two different slabs of Mahogany on a record doesn't mean that there aren't any.
Quencho092
New member
Re: Body wood: Alder vs Mahogany for hard rock & metal?
I tend to go overboard on this wood theory stuff, and I apologize for the trollage. As a disclaimer, nothing I say is an attempt to cast a theory in stone, I'm just proposing a realistic angle to oppose the rampant 'everything affects everything' perspective.
Do you feel the wood when you play? Or are you feeling the strings and the pickups, the neck, and fretwork? and the amp of course?
When I listen back to clips, my hearing can detect and link moments in the clip to memory, and I would be able to remember how a particular guitar felt as I was playing it at a given moment in a clip thus making me biased towards that tone/moment.
What I find funny is how much value gets assigned to just the quality of the wood, when it's EVERYTHING ELSE other than the wood that makes that particular guitar play and sound great...
Our brains associate many elements with moments in our memory in order to access them, and I know for a fact that my brain will tend to favor a guitar that plays like butter and allows me to really stretch out and try some 'technical feats', whatever tone I achieve through that guitar would get a 'thumbs up' from my brain. :bigok:
I tend to go overboard on this wood theory stuff, and I apologize for the trollage. As a disclaimer, nothing I say is an attempt to cast a theory in stone, I'm just proposing a realistic angle to oppose the rampant 'everything affects everything' perspective.
Do you feel the wood when you play? Or are you feeling the strings and the pickups, the neck, and fretwork? and the amp of course?
When I listen back to clips, my hearing can detect and link moments in the clip to memory, and I would be able to remember how a particular guitar felt as I was playing it at a given moment in a clip thus making me biased towards that tone/moment.
What I find funny is how much value gets assigned to just the quality of the wood, when it's EVERYTHING ELSE other than the wood that makes that particular guitar play and sound great...
Our brains associate many elements with moments in our memory in order to access them, and I know for a fact that my brain will tend to favor a guitar that plays like butter and allows me to really stretch out and try some 'technical feats', whatever tone I achieve through that guitar would get a 'thumbs up' from my brain. :bigok:
uOpt
Something Cool
Re: Body wood: Alder vs Mahogany for hard rock & metal?
I have a number of on paper identical Les Pauls. They are all non-chambered, non-swiss-cheesed, they all have ABR-1 bridges and ABR-1 posts (no anchors). All with maple cap and rosewood board, most nitro.
I am an obsessive pickup changer and I have standard sets of pickups I test in all. I would have no problem saying which guitar is which in a blind test of my own clean sound recordings, with the same pickups.
Whether I could tell if you just played a single recording to me depends, in that case I'd probably have to judge by sustain.
I have a number of on paper identical Les Pauls. They are all non-chambered, non-swiss-cheesed, they all have ABR-1 bridges and ABR-1 posts (no anchors). All with maple cap and rosewood board, most nitro.
I am an obsessive pickup changer and I have standard sets of pickups I test in all. I would have no problem saying which guitar is which in a blind test of my own clean sound recordings, with the same pickups.
Whether I could tell if you just played a single recording to me depends, in that case I'd probably have to judge by sustain.
El Supremo
New member
Re: Body wood: Alder vs Mahogany for hard rock & metal?
Well, mahogany should have some more lower mids. Meaning you can scoop your tone easier without sounding thin.
Alder should be brighter and make solos cut through more.
Somehow though, my superstrat sounds fatter acoustically than my Les Paul (and some other Les Pauls I've heard). Then again, my V sounds fatter than my superstrat.
So I'll vote doesn't matter.
Well, mahogany should have some more lower mids. Meaning you can scoop your tone easier without sounding thin.
Alder should be brighter and make solos cut through more.
Somehow though, my superstrat sounds fatter acoustically than my Les Paul (and some other Les Pauls I've heard). Then again, my V sounds fatter than my superstrat.
So I'll vote doesn't matter.
St_Genesius
New member
Re: Body wood: Alder vs Mahogany for hard rock & metal?
The darkest sounding guitar I own is all maple, save for the rosewood fretboard.
The brightest is an alder body with a maple neck and rosewood fretboard.
The most balanced is a mahogany body and neck, again with a rosewood fretboard.
The darkest sounding guitar I own is all maple, save for the rosewood fretboard.
The brightest is an alder body with a maple neck and rosewood fretboard.
The most balanced is a mahogany body and neck, again with a rosewood fretboard.