Bonamassa isn't buying Gibson;)

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Bonamassa isn't buying Gibson

About that much. Lol. I tend to not do copies though.

This isn’t a Gibson.

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I love that, David. Nice work!!

 

[justFred]

Re: Bonamassa isn't buying Gibson

About that much. Lol. I tend to not do copies though.

This isn’t a Gibson.

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will you sell me that guitar for $2,700???you can even keep the sock!!!!

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Bonamassa isn't buying Gibson

will you sell me that guitar for $2,700???you can even keep the sock!!!!

The lacquer was not totally cured. Didn’t want it do react with the rubber.

This was a one off for a friend, but I can build more. [emoji16]

It had some modern touches like a dual action truss rod.

I’m just getting setup in a new shop and working on some original models. I make my own pickups as well

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[Darg1911]

Re: Bonamassa isn't buying Gibson

Re: Bonamassa isn't buying Gibson

That’s the thing. Les Pauls were always heavy. If you pick up some old guitars though they have gotten lighter over time. This is one reason for the trend in using torrefied (i.e., baked) wood.

Also once upon a time a company like Gibson could afford to reject heavier pieces. But their volume is too high.

But small builders can get lighter blanks. Also other woods work just as well.

Honduran mahogany is also known as “big-leaf” mahogany (swietenia macrophylla). It grows from Mexico to Brazil. This is the only true mahogany commercially grown today.

There’s also Cuban mahogany (s. mahagoni)

There are other woods called mahogany which aren’t, such as African (Khaya) or Philippine mahogany.

Many woods are suitable for guitars. If the weights and densities are similar the tone will be too.

Here’s a guitar a friend of my mine made when we shared a workshop. It’s fairly non traditional woods... the body is white limba (korina), the top is curly oak, and the neck is poplar. The guitar sounds great! Has a very vocal tone.




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Not to derail further but, I get the Mahogany thing. That's why I used the " " when referencing Sapele or African or whatever other "Mahogany" aside from swietenia macrophylla. But you didn't answer the question regarding what Gibson actually uses, please chime in if you know for sure. Also, I know that they are supposed to be growing swietenia macrophylla in Fiji and have been for decades. I also read that it's not quite the same as the old stuff because of climate and growing conditions. Doesnt mean it's bad. And again, I have no idea if Gibson uses it.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Bonamassa isn't buying Gibson

Re: Bonamassa isn't buying Gibson

Not to derail further but, I get the Mahogany thing. That's why I used the " " when referencing Sapele or African or whatever other "Mahogany" aside from swietenia macrophylla. But you didn't answer the question regarding what Gibson actually uses, please chime in if you know for sure. Also, I know that they are supposed to be growing swietenia macrophylla in Fiji and have been for decades. I also read that it's not quite the same as the old stuff because of climate and growing conditions. Doesnt mean it's bad. And again, I have no idea if Gibson uses it.

It’s supposed to be big leaf, aka Honduran mahogany. I’ve also read they are growing it in Fiji. So who knows.


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[shupe13]

Re: Bonamassa isn't buying Gibson

Re: Bonamassa isn't buying Gibson

I'm not gonna lie, the Dean-esk 3 pup Lester and bottle opener Explorer, would be welcome additions to my stable.

I agree, however Henry has been focused on profits more than quality for a while now.

I’m a luthier that does repairs. I’ve seen some deplorable work come from Gibson. And it’s all based around taking less time on a guitar. I’ve seen file marks on the neck binding of a brand new Les Paul more than once. 4 minutes of sanding would have fixed it.

Or chatter marks left in the ebony fretboard on a Custom. They took it right from machining with no sanding.

Then we had the “Faded” series that didn’t require buffing the finish. And the ultimate time saver, the BFG! Someone got a big raise for that. Just take the guitar off the CNC. Minimal sanding, a little stain, and some rusty reject box hardware. Then charge more! Cha Ching!

They also introduced some of the tackiest, ugliest guitars ever.

So while the core business of building guitars that no one at the current company had anything to do with is profitable, they need to remove Henry now and get someone that has an interest in making great guitars and not obsessing on profit. And they need to hire some real designers before they introduce new models.

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[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Bonamassa isn't buying Gibson

Re: Bonamassa isn't buying Gibson

I'm not gonna lie, the Dean-esk 3 pup Lester...

I like that one. It’s a solid version of the Switchmaster with the original prototype Explorer headstock.

...and bottle opener Explorer, would be welcome additions to my stable.

You can keep that one!


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[zionstrat]

Re: Bonamassa isn't buying Gibson

Re: Bonamassa isn't buying Gibson

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David, thanks for reposting this one- it's a picture worth a thousand words from the product management side-
Although some of these designs may be interesting, they certainly weren't big sellers and they didn't increase mind-share or wallet-share.

The first rule of product management is to build something that customers want that increases Return On Investment- Note that this isn't an artisan issue- If it's butt ugly and hard to play and people love them, then you did your job at a product level.

Where this gets complicated is, if the neck is twisted and people still love them (because they have a Gibson sticker on them), in theory you appear to be doing a good job because of short term sales-

But in that case, if competitors fill the gaps (as PRS, Anderson, Suhr, Taylor have done), you find that long term ROI is damaged and this is the big long term problem that Gibson faces (assuming they can dis-invest without imploding).

It's funny, there is plenty of data but no one seems to notice- Hoovers has a nice break down on 2017 and plenty for most of the competitors and they make Henry's recent claims appear incredible-

But that isn't the biggest issue- the Gibson brand has been damaged (otherwise we wouldn't be having these conversations), there has been major competitive encroachment and Ch11 provides limited time and opportunity to fix everything-

If they bring in good long-term management, give them resources, and adopt modern business practices, there's plenty of potential.

The other options is keep the company afloat until creditors can get their money out and a strategy to make that happen would be to pay Henry to keep saying that everything is wonderful.

A year from now, conjecture will be unnecessary and it will be nice if we have a growing Gibson.

 

[Adieu]

Re: Bonamassa isn't buying Gibson

Outstanding ... someone buy that Man a beverage of his choosing.

On a side note i can tell you ive turned down at least 15 Gibson purchases because they had PCB pots and/or robo-tuners.

If you can't tune a guitar you shouldn't be trying to use one.

PCB pots arent necessarily a bad thing... and certainly aint a Gibson novelty

Ive seen PCB pots on good 45yo Japanese LP clones

Robotuners, otoh, look horrendous

 

[Gtrjunior]

Re: Bonamassa isn't buying Gibson

PCB pots arent necessarily a bad thing... and certainly aint a Gibson novelty

Ive seen PCB pots on good 45yo Japanese LP clones

Robotuners, otoh, look horrendous

...and both are easily remedied.
My 2012 Standard had the PCB and my 2015 Special had both the PCB and Robotuners. The pots and wiring cost next to nothing and I bought a set of locking Grovers for less than $65.

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Bonamassa isn't buying Gibson

...and both are easily remedied.
My 2012 Standard had the PCB and my 2015 Special had both the PCB and Robotuners. The pots and wiring cost next to nothing and I bought a set of locking Grovers for less than $65.

Selling both the board and robotuners on ebay or reverb will more than pay for replacement pots, caps, wire and tuning machines.

 

[JMP/HBE]

Re: Bonamassa isn't buying Gibson

Shouldn't have to replace or sell anything when buying a new guitar.

Just more hassle.

If robo-tuners & PCB pots are so great why don't they put them on Custom Shop models ?

Henry is responsible for turning out a Generation of worker that can't wire pots & guitar players that can't use a tuner.

Thats some kind of vision.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Bonamassa isn't buying Gibson

^ Of course you don't have to. What you prefer is up to you, and can happen on guitars of any price.

You seem to be very confused, it is absurd to assume that because they do not put certain items on a line that is specifically targeted to copy a guitar that didn't have them in the first place that they must be bad. Really, your logic and understanding is utterly lacking.

 

[JMP/HBE]

Re: Bonamassa isn't buying Gibson

No confusion about this Brah ...

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Bonamassa isn't buying Gibson

I don't think their is anything great about either one.

The G-Force I'm not a fan of at all and it's one of the features allows them to justify charging you more money. But if I'm not mistaken, they are only on the HP models. If you like and want a LP with the fast access neck heel, then you are stuck with also taking the robotuners, zero fret and whatever else. And paying $400 more. But, if it's an otherwise great guitar and you like the features, aside from the G-force tuner, I'm not sure why someone would skip the purchase because of it. If you want a more traditional LP or SG or whatever, buy one of the "T" models instead. Simple.

As far as the boards, it's not just Custom Shops that don't have the boards (at least as of 2017, I don't know about 2018). My 2017 Traditional doesn't have the PCB. Maybe they are just using the PCB's in the lower cost models. My Tribute had the PCB. But again, if you like the guitar otherwise, I'm not sure why someone would skip it just because it had PCB mounted pots.

That said, to each his / her own.

 

[Adieu]

Re: Bonamassa isn't buying Gibson

No confusion about this Brah ...

Why is this clown smashing a BOLT-ON SG???

Is this their way of looking down on competitors? Or did they just want to destroy SOMETHING, but too cheap and full of qualms to destroy their own work?

Oh wait.. is that the Chibson w/ Eclipsed headstock in the pic? Well duuuuuude, if you wanna show it sucks, prove it in a comparison don't just go throw a tantrum... else predictably most everybody won't notice what you meant and will just see a grown-ass gramps raging out in public looking like a fool

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Bonamassa isn't buying Gibson

Really, your logic and understanding is utterly lacking.

Alex, the Gibson mess is complex and there are many viable examples of Gibson's strengths and weaknesses- But I don't see how you justify this comment-

Gibson's target market didn't like Robo tuners, they didn't sell and it's common for users who want the base guitar to remove them- In theory, they could have been attractive to other segments (beginner/students) but the pricing was wrong... so it's a near perfect case of product development that wasn't driven by user needs.

So what are you trying to say and how was JMPs logic lacking?

 

[Inkstained]

Re: Bonamassa isn't buying Gibson

Hating Henry is a favorite pastime on every guitar forum, but those are the same forums where everyone lusts over the 90s Standards and the Custom Shop models from any year.

Henry made some fantastic decisions until he lost the thread.

to try and put things in perspective....when Henry J and partners bought Gibson they were on the verge of going out of business...turn back the clock and no Henry J back then and possibly no Gibson today...or a worse situation like what AMF did to Harley...or worse...
"During Juszkiewicz's tenure, Gibson has grown from a $700 million company to one valued at more than $3 billion, with nearly 5,000 employees worldwide and a global market share that he estimates at 40 percent."
It's a business operating in a rapidly changing environment...one of you fellows like to step up and take the drivers seat...guaranteed you'll find it a much bigger ship to try and drive then you ever imagined...
give the guy some credit for saving Gibson in the first place, growing the business...things obviously got out of hand...mistakes were made...let it go and hope the new team is up to the challenge of getting a company with a nostalgic product base to survive...

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Bonamassa isn't buying Gibson

Why is this clown smashing a BOLT-ON SG???

Is this their way of looking down on competitors? Or did they just want to destroy SOMETHING, but too cheap and full of qualms to destroy their own work?

I think that's a Gibson SG Fusion.

http://www.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/2017/USA/SG-Fusion-S-Series.aspx

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Bonamassa isn't buying Gibson

Why is this clown smashing a BOLT-ON SG???

Is this their way of looking down on competitors? Or did they just want to destroy SOMETHING, but too cheap and full of qualms to destroy their own work?

Yeah, I've commented on that one before because it appears so mindless-

How can smashing a guitar, in anyway, prove that you have a superior product? Unless the feature you are trying to demonstrate 'it takes more energy and effort to destroy a Gibson" and I never saw the Gibson smashing photos if that was the point