Boss ES-8 , is anything better?

[mantis]

Hello all,
I've been eyeing this up and it seems complete. 8 loops , fully programmable, Parallel effects, order changing , Midi , TRS outputs, Tuner output , you name it , it seems to have it.
Now some technical questions , is this thing fully analog pass? True Bypass and Buffered? I kinda know the answers but it isn't really clear.

Does anyone own one or even the ES-5 which is basically the same thing smaller?

I don't think there is a better unit on the market unless someone can point one out. I'm not completely happy with what it costs but IF thats what it takes to do this job then I'll have to pay it.

 

[stilwel]

Re: Boss ES-8 , is anything better?

9 Loops actually. 8 numbered loops plus the Volume loop.

I've had an ES-8 for a year now. It's such a tremendous value for what you're getting. I can't believe people pay nearly twice the price for a Gigrig or the RJM switcher.

It is true-analog bypass and has programmable input and output buffers.

As far as I'm concerned, nothing is even close right now.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Boss ES-8 , is anything better?

I've got super GAS for it right now. It's like the GCX/Ground Control setup for pedalboard people.

 

[mantis]

Re: Boss ES-8 , is anything better?

9 Loops actually. 8 numbered loops plus the Volume loop.

I've had an ES-8 for a year now. It's such a tremendous value for what you're getting. I can't believe people pay nearly twice the price for a Gigrig or the RJM switcher.

It is true-analog bypass and has programmable input and output buffers.

As far as I'm concerned, nothing is even close right now.

Awesome man. Just a few questions
1) Are you using your amps effect loop? If so how are you using it with the ES-8?
2) What about a noise gate pedal? I have a TC Electronics which has a very cool Loop feature to filter out the OD and distortion pedals and like the way it works like that. How would I use it with the ES-8?

As far as Boss goes with Control , the GT-100 was a killer monster of a multi effects board. I still own one and I miss it from time to time as nothing I have ever seen does what it does especially for anywhere near it's price new and the quality is 2nd to NONE. At least not at that price point.
After I purchased a Power supply, Volume Pedal , Noise gate I was almost already at the price of the GT-100 and I had no effects yet. I'm well over the asking price of the GT-100 and I have no control over my rig yet. Such a value the GT is.

Anyway I'm so glad your digging the ES-8. I really want to get one soon.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Boss ES-8 , is anything better?

Awesome man. Just a few questions
1) Are you using your amps effect loop? If so how are you using it with the ES-8?
2) What about a noise gate pedal? I have a TC Electronics which has a very cool Loop feature to filter out the OD and distortion pedals and like the way it works like that. How would I use it with the ES-8?

I apologize if I'm telling you things you already know.

The ES-8 can be used with an effects loop using the 4-cable method using the volume pedal loop. If you wanted the first 4 effects in front of the amp and 4 effects in the loop you would go:
Guitar -> Input
Pedals in loops 1-4
ES-8 Volume Send -> Amp input
Amp Effects Loop Send -> ES-8 Volume Return
Pedals in loops 5-8
ES-8 Output -> Amp Effects Loop Return

The position of the Volume Pedal loop can be configured in any position, so you can have as many loops in front of the amp and in the loop as you need.

 

[stilwel]

Re: Boss ES-8 , is anything better?

No. i am running all of my pedals into the front end of my amp.

 

[mantis]

Re: Boss ES-8 , is anything better?

I apologize if I'm telling you things you already know.

The ES-8 can be used with an effects loop using the 4-cable method using the volume pedal loop. If you wanted the first 4 effects in front of the amp and 4 effects in the loop you would go:
Guitar -> Input
Pedals in loops 1-4
ES-8 Volume Send -> Amp input
Amp Effects Loop Send -> ES-8 Volume Return
Pedals in loops 5-8
ES-8 Output -> Amp Effects Loop Return

The position of the Volume Pedal loop can be configured in any position, so you can have as many loops in front of the amp and in the loop as you need.

Thats exactly what I would like to do. It's also how I used the GT-100 in the 4CM.
Thanks man

 

[Hank-]

Re: Boss ES-8 , is anything better?

1) Are you using your amps effect loop? If so how are you using it with the ES-8?
2) What about a noise gate pedal? I have a TC Electronics which has a very cool Loop feature to filter out the OD and distortion pedals and like the way it works like that. How would I use it with the ES-8?

Imagine the GT Fx chain layout. Every loop on ES8 gets one block if you want any order routing of fx. So,

1) Amp's FX loop occupies one of the ES8 loops.

2) Guitar> Sentry in, Sentry out>ES8 In. Sentry's loop occupies one of ES8 loops.

That should let you arrange things freely.

 

[mantis]

Re: Boss ES-8 , is anything better?

Imagine the GT Fx chain layout. Every loop on ES8 gets one block if you want any order routing of fx. So,

1) Amp's FX loop occupies one of the ES8 loops.

2) Guitar> Sentry in, Sentry out>ES8 In. Sentry's loop occupies one of ES8 loops.

That should let you arrange things freely.

Thanks Hank, your replies are very helpful. I got to get my head around the way this Looper/switcher works. The Loops are what are stumping me just a bit. I keep thinking about the IN and OUT where like say your Amps effects loop is IN and OUT, how are you getting between those 2 legs to insert the pedals? I kinda get it but I kinda don't.
The Sentry is another LOOP that I kinda get what your saying and again kinda don't. I know I gotta get it in my hands and run it through it's paces but until that time I'm just trying to learn all I can about it.
There is a series of videos about the ES-8 on you tube that I watched the first one. It's this German dude I forget his name and one of his Guitar students some girl who basically doesn't know anything about it and is learning with him on these videos. Despite him joking around and being silly he seems to know his stuff quite well.
I just looked it up and it's this dude, EytschPi42.

Again thanks Hank

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Boss ES-8 , is anything better?

Try it this way....

So you understand how the standard portion of the looper works, right?
Loop 1 Send -> Stompbox Input // Stompbox Output -> Loop 1 Return
Manually turn on loop 1 and the stompbox in loop 1 is in the signal chain. Cool, right?

So let's think about the guitar amp itself as two sections, the Preamp and the Power Amp. The input of the preamp is the guitar input, the output of the preamp is the Effects Loop Send. The input of the power amp is the Effects Loop Return, and the output of the power amp is the speaker jack.

So thinking like this, you'd want to go:
ES-8 Loop Send -> Amp Input // Effects Loop Send -> ES-8 Loop Return
ES-8 Output -> Amp Effects Loop Return

Of course you want the guitar amp preamp in the circuit all the time, so use the "Volume Pedal Loop" for the preamp somits always active. The the output of the ES-8 will always be connected to the amp's Effects Loop Return (Power Amp Input)

It's wordy, but I hope that clarifies a little bit.

Here's a block diagram that kind of illustrates it. (Of course the loop returns need to be connected as well from each pedal)

 

[Hank-]

Re: Boss ES-8 , is anything better?

Thanks Hank, your replies are very helpful. I got to get my head around the way this Looper/switcher works. The Loops are what are stumping me just a bit. I keep thinking about the IN and OUT where like say your Amps effects loop is IN and OUT, how are you getting between those 2 legs to insert the pedals? I kinda get it but I kinda don't.
The Sentry is another LOOP that I kinda get what your saying and again kinda don't. I know I gotta get it in my hands and run it through it's paces but until that time I'm just trying to learn all I can about it.
There is a series of videos about the ES-8 on you tube that I watched the first one. It's this German dude I forget his name and one of his Guitar students some girl who basically doesn't know anything about it and is learning with him on these videos. Despite him joking around and being silly he seems to know his stuff quite well.
I just looked it up and it's this dude, EytschPi42.

Again thanks Hank

I approach the ES8 as an empty GT unit. The loops are the effect blocks, fill them with stomps.

The sentry is required between the guitar & es8 for tracking so the gate opens & closes correctly. The sentry's loop will take noise out. So that needs to be part of one of es8 loops, just like one of the NS blocks in the GT. Now you can move it around within the es8 signal chain.

Now for your amp fx send/return, i hope its a global & not per channel. It complicates things but I'll explain that if necessary next time. Consider the Preamp A/B block in the GT. When you place your amp's preamp in one of es8's loop, this is now your Preamp block like in the GT.

The volume pedal goes in the es8 dedicated volume loop.

Last but not the least, Out 1/2. Consider the Main Output of the GT as this thing. It is what gets connected to your amp's input.

Also, I noticed the loop 7 or 8 has dual returns or sends. I'll need to see the manual to tell what it functions as. Basically its not complicated if you are familiar with the gt10/100 fx chain layout, its pretty much the same.

Edit: Big mistake.
You need to go 4CM to make the amps preamp moveable. So,
Es8 (any loop) Send>Amp input, Amp send>Es8 Loop Return, Es8 Out1>Amp Return

 

[Matt42]

Re: Boss ES-8 , is anything better?

I've been thinking about getting something like this for years, but it seems like overkill for the "weekend warrior" type. If I was touring at lot, or playing 4 times a week, I'd definitely get something like this.

For those of you who have one (or another similar system), what are the features or advantages that make it worth the money? Is it not having to tap on the boost and delay and off the modulation for a solo section and back for the next verse? Is it not having 25+ feet of cable in the signal at all times?

There are aspects that really draw me to it, but $700 would be 1/3 to 1/2 of my total pedalboard value, which just seems like a lot.

 

[Hank-]

Re: Boss ES-8 , is anything better?

I've been thinking about getting something like this for years, but it seems like overkill for the "weekend warrior" type. If I was touring at lot, or playing 4 times a week, I'd definitely get something like this.

For those of you who have one (or another similar system), what are the features or advantages that make it worth the money? Is it not having to tap on the boost and delay and off the modulation for a solo section and back for the next verse? Is it not having 25+ feet of cable in the signal at all times?

There are aspects that really draw me to it, but $700 would be 1/3 to 1/2 of my total pedalboard value, which just seems like a lot.

Yeah the easy of turning pedals on/off with one footswitch & with the es8 you get free routing of them in any order. With these units the pedals individual footswitches will last a very long time.

One thing to remember though, if you use different settings on your pedals for various songs then those need to be done manually unless your pedals have presets to store settings as well.

It's your call though, there are cheaper switching units available than the es8 if you don't mind a fixed routing of the effects chain. You would still be running long cables some places but overall not that much benefit there expect for the ability to add buffers with es8

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Boss ES-8 , is anything better?

The MIDI functionality and signal routing are the two huge features that differentiate it from other programmable loopers, and the price differentiates it from the other high end loopers (like the GigRig).

If you've got some Strymon/Eventide pedals, need to change amp channels and have a bunch of different tones, it's amazing. For example, one expression pedal can be used to control different pedals by patch. One tap tempo button (or one of the buttons on the unit) can be used to send tap tempo to multiple devices, both through MIDI and by typical tap input (like a Boss delay).

For those simply needing coordinating pedal changes with a single foot switch, there are cheaper options that will work just as well.

 

[mantis]

Re: Boss ES-8 , is anything better?

Try it this way....

So you understand how the standard portion of the looper works, right?
Loop 1 Send -> Stompbox Input // Stompbox Output -> Loop 1 Return
Manually turn on loop 1 and the stompbox in loop 1 is in the signal chain. Cool, right?

So let's think about the guitar amp itself as two sections, the Preamp and the Power Amp. The input of the preamp is the guitar input, the output of the preamp is the Effects Loop Send. The input of the power amp is the Effects Loop Return, and the output of the power amp is the speaker jack.

So thinking like this, you'd want to go:
ES-8 Loop Send -> Amp Input // Effects Loop Send -> ES-8 Loop Return
ES-8 Output -> Amp Effects Loop Return

Of course you want the guitar amp preamp in the circuit all the time, so use the "Volume Pedal Loop" for the preamp somits always active. The the output of the ES-8 will always be connected to the amp's Effects Loop Return (Power Amp Input)

It's wordy, but I hope that clarifies a little bit.

Here's a block diagram that kind of illustrates it. (Of course the loop returns need to be connected as well from each pedal)

I basically get it and thanks for the Block diagram.

 

[mantis]

Re: Boss ES-8 , is anything better?

I approach the ES8 as an empty GT unit. The loops are the effect blocks, fill them with stomps.

The sentry is required between the guitar & es8 for tracking so the gate opens & closes correctly. The sentry's loop will take noise out. So that needs to be part of one of es8 loops, just like one of the NS blocks in the GT. Now you can move it around within the es8 signal chain.

Now for your amp fx send/return, i hope its a global & not per channel. It complicates things but I'll explain that if necessary next time. Consider the Preamp A/B block in the GT. When you place your amp's preamp in one of es8's loop, this is now your Preamp block like in the GT.

The volume pedal goes in the es8 dedicated volume loop.

Last but not the least, Out 1/2. Consider the Main Output of the GT as this thing. It is what gets connected to your amp's input.

Also, I noticed the loop 7 or 8 has dual returns or sends. I'll need to see the manual to tell what it functions as. Basically its not complicated if you are familiar with the gt10/100 fx chain layout, its pretty much the same.

Edit: Big mistake.
You need to go 4CM to make the amps preamp moveable. So,
Es8 (any loop) Send>Amp input, Amp send>Es8 Loop Return, Es8 Out1>Amp Return

I'm very similar with both the GT-10 and GT-100. I owned them both and still have the GT-100. I went pedals because I wanted a more organic sound and I don't use modeling at all, the amp modeling I mean. I like my amp and how it sounds.
The Effects loop on my amp is global. My amp only has 2 channels so both pass through the loop.
I used the 4CM from the GT-8 to the 10 and last was the 100. So I know how the effects chain works boss style.
So in the GT-100, you setup your OUTPUT to RETURN meaning your connecting the OUTPUT of the GT to the RETURN of your EFFECTS loop.
The Send on the GT goes to the FRONT of your preamp , The SEND from your amps effects loop meaning the Preamp goes to the REURN of the GT. Your guitar plugs into the GT directly.
In the effect chain, the send and return blocks are your amp. You turn off the Modeling smack and now use your amps preamp and amp.
The Volume pedal is in your effects loop unless you move it somewhere else. I like it there as I like to use Volume as volume and not gain control or swells.
The Sentry's Loop is what I'm thinking about how you INSERT pedals inbetween it? Like a distortion Loop and a OD loop and even the Spark Booster. So 3 Loops of effects need to live inside the Sentry's Noise gate loop. I'm not sure I get how it will do that. This way the Sentry Gate will work correctly The Guitar should be plugged directly into it. But the ES-8 your plugging into that first. So even the Sentry would need to be a Loop meaning it's INPUT and SEND so you can have the guitar into the gate , then SEND will go out to the first of your OD pedals then the RETURN side of the Gate needs to be the Last OD pedals Loop into it.
Then the OUTPUT of the Sentry Gate needs to go to the FRONT of the preamp section of the Guitar amp.
So then the Volume pedal needs to be placed from the Send of the effects loop of the amp and be first in that chain. All Modulate effects need to be after the Volume pedal . In my case Chorus , Delay and then Reverb.
My Sonic Maximizer can live outside the Looper as it would live in line with the leg out of the ES-8 that would go to the RETURN of my amps effects loop. This should be an issue at all.
I feel the Gate is what makes everything harder to understand as you I'm guessing need to use 2 Loops in your to place the Gate correctly. It lives in front of the amp twice technically.
Amp control sound be easy as my amp controls TRS. I believe the ES-8 has stereo control outs for an AMP? The GT-100 didn't have that feature for amp control, it was mono so I was only able to change channels but not control my second volume on my gain channel which was the 2nd command from the factory switch. It has 2 switches. One does amp channel changing and the other switch changes the 2 volume control settings. My amp uses the 2 volume controls for Solo and Rhythm . You set each volume where you want it and with the foot switch you can change what volume pot your using. The GT-100 What I did because the gT wasn't able to do the 2nd switch, I just built patches louder then the Rhythm ones. Easy way around that but I think the ES-8 has TRS .

 

[mantis]

Re: Boss ES-8 , is anything better?

I was on youtube checking out the ES-8 and found a series of Video from this dude on it. He seems to believe it's the very best switcher on the market due tot the fact it can do things no other switch can do like Matrix switching an Parallel loops. This ES-8 is absolutely killer and takes your single pedals into Multieffects world and then some.
Pretty damn awesome.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxfUo-TIO-s

 

[Aceman]

Re: Boss ES-8 , is anything better?

I could SO clean up my stage crap with this....

 

[Hank-]

Re: Boss ES-8 , is anything better?

I'm very similar with both the GT-10 and GT-100. I owned them both and still have the GT-100. I went pedals because I wanted a more organic sound and I don't use modeling at all, the amp modeling I mean. I like my amp and how it sounds.
The Effects loop on my amp is global. My amp only has 2 channels so both pass through the loop.
I used the 4CM from the GT-8 to the 10 and last was the 100. So I know how the effects chain works boss style.
So in the GT-100, you setup your OUTPUT to RETURN meaning your connecting the OUTPUT of the GT to the RETURN of your EFFECTS loop.
The Send on the GT goes to the FRONT of your preamp , The SEND from your amps effects loop meaning the Preamp goes to the REURN of the GT. Your guitar plugs into the GT directly.
In the effect chain, the send and return blocks are your amp. You turn off the Modeling smack and now use your amps preamp and amp.
The Volume pedal is in your effects loop unless you move it somewhere else. I like it there as I like to use Volume as volume and not gain control or swells.
The Sentry's Loop is what I'm thinking about how you INSERT pedals inbetween it? Like a distortion Loop and a OD loop and even the Spark Booster. So 3 Loops of effects need to live inside the Sentry's Noise gate loop. I'm not sure I get how it will do that. This way the Sentry Gate will work correctly The Guitar should be plugged directly into it. But the ES-8 your plugging into that first. So even the Sentry would need to be a Loop meaning it's INPUT and SEND so you can have the guitar into the gate , then SEND will go out to the first of your OD pedals then the RETURN side of the Gate needs to be the Last OD pedals Loop into it.
Then the OUTPUT of the Sentry Gate needs to go to the FRONT of the preamp section of the Guitar amp.
So then the Volume pedal needs to be placed from the Send of the effects loop of the amp and be first in that chain. All Modulate effects need to be after the Volume pedal . In my case Chorus , Delay and then Reverb.
My Sonic Maximizer can live outside the Looper as it would live in line with the leg out of the ES-8 that would go to the RETURN of my amps effects loop. This should be an issue at all.
I feel the Gate is what makes everything harder to understand as you I'm guessing need to use 2 Loops in your to place the Gate correctly. It lives in front of the amp twice technically.
Amp control sound be easy as my amp controls TRS. I believe the ES-8 has stereo control outs for an AMP? The GT-100 didn't have that feature for amp control, it was mono so I was only able to change channels but not control my second volume on my gain channel which was the 2nd command from the factory switch. It has 2 switches. One does amp channel changing and the other switch changes the 2 volume control settings. My amp uses the 2 volume controls for Solo and Rhythm . You set each volume where you want it and with the foot switch you can change what volume pot your using. The GT-100 What I did because the gT wasn't able to do the 2nd switch, I just built patches louder then the Rhythm ones. Easy way around that but I think the ES-8 has TRS .

Haven't seen the vid but I thought of a way to incorporate the sentry completely/properly into es8.

Guitar>Sentry In
Sentry Send>ES8 Input
Es8 loop 1 Send>SentryReturn
Sentry Out> Es8 loop 1 return.

Now since the chain is reroutable, if loop 2 on es8 has Distortion pedal inserted into it, move & place it in front of loop 1. You now have the distortion pedal living in sentry's loop. So what ever pedal/S-R blocks of the Es8 you want to live in the sentry's loop can be made to be there this way.

Edit: I think this is how the NS1/2 blocks work within the GTs as well. They gate everything in front of them but nothing after them. Still thinking of an alternative but it might end up using two of es8 loops, if it were me then i would end up using it as i mentioned before the Edit.

 

[mantis]

Re: Boss ES-8 , is anything better?

Haven't seen the vid but I thought of a way to incorporate the sentry completely/properly into es8.

Guitar>Sentry In
Sentry Send>ES8 Input
Es8 loop 1 Send>SentryReturn
Sentry Out> Es8 loop 1 return.

Now since the chain is reroutable, if loop 2 on es8 has Distortion pedal inserted into it, move & place it in front of loop 1. You now have the distortion pedal living in sentry's loop. So what ever pedal/S-R blocks of the Es8 you want to live in the sentry's loop can be made to be there this way.

Edit: I think this is how the NS1/2 blocks work within the GTs as well. They gate everything in front of them but nothing after them. Still thinking of an alternative but it might end up using two of es8 loops, if it were me then i would end up using it as i mentioned before the Edit.

Yeah, that would work, I like the way you think my man.