Boss pedals
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drpietrzak
New member
Re: Boss pedals
:naughty: Ask Rid. :foot:
:naughty: Ask Rid. :foot:
astrozombie
KatyPerryologist
Re: Boss pedals
I dont really know the answer... but think about this: why do so many "true bypass" pedals advertise this among the specs?
how come Boss doesn't?
theyre awesome pedals, at any rate, maybe having a lot screws up your tone...
I dont really know the answer... but think about this: why do so many "true bypass" pedals advertise this among the specs?
how come Boss doesn't?
theyre awesome pedals, at any rate, maybe having a lot screws up your tone...
misterwhizzy
Well-known member
Re: Boss pedals
I suggest you listen to the amp before and after attaching the pedal. Theory is one thing, but practice is another. Use your ears, Luke.
I suggest you listen to the amp before and after attaching the pedal. Theory is one thing, but practice is another. Use your ears, Luke.
marvar
New member
Re: Boss pedals
If it is true bypass, then the signal will pass thru it w/o a battery or power supply- when the circuit/switch is off
My Sparkle Drive is true bypass, my Keeley Boss DS1 isn't.
I've read where some folks lose signal when they pass thru too many Boss pedals, or any brand for that matter,
If it is true bypass, then the signal will pass thru it w/o a battery or power supply- when the circuit/switch is off
My Sparkle Drive is true bypass, my Keeley Boss DS1 isn't.
I've read where some folks lose signal when they pass thru too many Boss pedals, or any brand for that matter,
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Rich_S
HomeGrownToneBrewologist
Re: Boss pedals
All Boss pedals have buffers before and after their effects section, with FET transistors doing the bypass switching function. Sometimes the FET circuit doesn't really "bypass" anything, it just shuts off the wet signal. The CE-2 chorus is this way - the dry signal goes through the buffers and an op-amp stage all the time, and the chorused wet signal is either added to it, or not.
To many of anything can screw up your tone. Heck, even the plugs, jacks, and cables have an effect. True bypass pedals puport to get completely out of the way when tney are in "bypass". The problem comes when the effect in question is signficantly different from the straight-through path in terms of impedance or level; that is, the way it interacts with the pedals on either side of it.
Buffers are designed to sort of level the playing field, to eliminate the interactions, or more accurately, the big changes in those interactions that result from switching true-bypass pedals in and out. Some combinations of pedals interact well, and others don't.
Case in point, my MXR reissue Phase 90. It sounds awesome, but it's a tone sucker. As it came from the factory, with an authentic old-school non-true-bypass SPDT switch, it sucked tone all the time. Now, with a true bypass switch installed, it doesn't suck tone when it's off, but it does suck tone when it's on. So, there is a step change in the amount of tone suckage when I switch it on.
Is that good or bad? That's up to the player to answer. Since it's not one of my core pedals, and I use it infrequently, I decided it's better to "get it out of the way" with the true-bypass, and take the hit on tone suckage on the few occasions I use it. Another player, one who uses the phaser frequently and switches it on and off a lot, might decide it's better to 1) leave the tone-sucking SPDT switch in place and compensate for the tone suck elsewhere in the chain, or 2) use a buffered phaser that doesn't suck tone as much. Our own ErikH actually added a buffer to the output of a Phase 90 to eliminate the tone suck.
Also remember (and this is where it really gets complicated) that with a bunch of true-bypass pedals the interactions between pedals move around. That is, the "adjacent" pedals are not necessarily those wired on either side. In terms of pedal interactions, the "adjacent" pedals might be several pedals down the line, if everything in between is true bypass. Turn one of those in-between pedals on, and suddenly it becomes the "adjacent" pedal. The permutations can be mind-boggling.
Right now, my pedalboard has 5 buffered Boss pedals and 2 true-bypass. Sure, the 5 buffered pedals have an impact on tone, but it's a consistent impact for which I can compensate with my amps volume and tone controls. No one solution is right, though I venture to say a well-thought-out mix of buffered and true bypass is probably the best solution.
All Boss pedals have buffers before and after their effects section, with FET transistors doing the bypass switching function. Sometimes the FET circuit doesn't really "bypass" anything, it just shuts off the wet signal. The CE-2 chorus is this way - the dry signal goes through the buffers and an op-amp stage all the time, and the chorused wet signal is either added to it, or not.
To many of anything can screw up your tone. Heck, even the plugs, jacks, and cables have an effect. True bypass pedals puport to get completely out of the way when tney are in "bypass". The problem comes when the effect in question is signficantly different from the straight-through path in terms of impedance or level; that is, the way it interacts with the pedals on either side of it.
Buffers are designed to sort of level the playing field, to eliminate the interactions, or more accurately, the big changes in those interactions that result from switching true-bypass pedals in and out. Some combinations of pedals interact well, and others don't.
Case in point, my MXR reissue Phase 90. It sounds awesome, but it's a tone sucker. As it came from the factory, with an authentic old-school non-true-bypass SPDT switch, it sucked tone all the time. Now, with a true bypass switch installed, it doesn't suck tone when it's off, but it does suck tone when it's on. So, there is a step change in the amount of tone suckage when I switch it on.
Is that good or bad? That's up to the player to answer. Since it's not one of my core pedals, and I use it infrequently, I decided it's better to "get it out of the way" with the true-bypass, and take the hit on tone suckage on the few occasions I use it. Another player, one who uses the phaser frequently and switches it on and off a lot, might decide it's better to 1) leave the tone-sucking SPDT switch in place and compensate for the tone suck elsewhere in the chain, or 2) use a buffered phaser that doesn't suck tone as much. Our own ErikH actually added a buffer to the output of a Phase 90 to eliminate the tone suck.
Also remember (and this is where it really gets complicated) that with a bunch of true-bypass pedals the interactions between pedals move around. That is, the "adjacent" pedals are not necessarily those wired on either side. In terms of pedal interactions, the "adjacent" pedals might be several pedals down the line, if everything in between is true bypass. Turn one of those in-between pedals on, and suddenly it becomes the "adjacent" pedal. The permutations can be mind-boggling.
Right now, my pedalboard has 5 buffered Boss pedals and 2 true-bypass. Sure, the 5 buffered pedals have an impact on tone, but it's a consistent impact for which I can compensate with my amps volume and tone controls. No one solution is right, though I venture to say a well-thought-out mix of buffered and true bypass is probably the best solution.
FretFire
SingedFingerologist
Re: Boss pedals
In my experience, people pay a lot more attention to true bypass vs. buffered than it really warrants in the big picture. I may get scoffed at for that, but I say use what you like the sound of regardless. I certainly wouldn't disregard a pedal simply because it was or wasn't true bypass.
In my experience, people pay a lot more attention to true bypass vs. buffered than it really warrants in the big picture. I may get scoffed at for that, but I say use what you like the sound of regardless. I certainly wouldn't disregard a pedal simply because it was or wasn't true bypass.
Scatterwound
New member
Re: Boss pedals
I agree with that! Who cares in the first place if a pedal is or is not true bypass...Try it on in your application...By itself or with other pedals...."If it sounds good...It IS good...."
Hypothetical conversation below:
"Man I just tried this pedal on my board with my rig and it rocks! I used it on two gigs so far me and my bandmates loved it. The crowd went wild"
"Did you know it is not true bypass?"
"Oh it is not? Damn....Ok I do not like it anymore..."
WHATEVER!!
I agree with that! Who cares in the first place if a pedal is or is not true bypass...Try it on in your application...By itself or with other pedals...."If it sounds good...It IS good...."
Hypothetical conversation below:
"Man I just tried this pedal on my board with my rig and it rocks! I used it on two gigs so far me and my bandmates loved it. The crowd went wild"
"Did you know it is not true bypass?"
"Oh it is not? Damn....Ok I do not like it anymore..."
WHATEVER!!
freddarl82
New member
Re: Boss pedals
Here's a good article on the subject from Gibson. I just read an almost identical article in Guitar Player mag the other day (in fact, it may have been by the same author, Dave Hunter).
The Cliff Notes version:
Most players would accept that if you were to run a 30' cable from your guitar to a single pedal and 30' of cable back to the amp (60' of total cable), your tone would suck compared to if you had run a single 10' cable from the guitar straight into the amp. Now, let's say instead you're running a 15' cable from the guitar to a pedalboard with 6 true bypass pedals and then a 15' cord to the amp. Point is, when you consider all the jacks, interconnects and internal (inside each pedal's true bypass wiring) wiring, you are effectively "running through a longer cord," i.e. much more than the 30' sum of your two 15' cords. So as the article and Rich S point out, a few buffered pedals in the mix can actually be a benefit.
Here's a good article on the subject from Gibson. I just read an almost identical article in Guitar Player mag the other day (in fact, it may have been by the same author, Dave Hunter).
The Cliff Notes version:
Most players would accept that if you were to run a 30' cable from your guitar to a single pedal and 30' of cable back to the amp (60' of total cable), your tone would suck compared to if you had run a single 10' cable from the guitar straight into the amp. Now, let's say instead you're running a 15' cable from the guitar to a pedalboard with 6 true bypass pedals and then a 15' cord to the amp. Point is, when you consider all the jacks, interconnects and internal (inside each pedal's true bypass wiring) wiring, you are effectively "running through a longer cord," i.e. much more than the 30' sum of your two 15' cords. So as the article and Rich S point out, a few buffered pedals in the mix can actually be a benefit.
Svs696
New member
Re: Boss pedals
I'm just starting out man (gear-wise). As soon as i get the cash I'm gonna get me a Vox Night Train. Which is gonna be a HUGE change since my main amp is a Line 6 Spider 3. The only pedal I have atm is a Bad Horsie 2, I'm asking questions before i start making decisions. The pedals I'm currently interested in are the Pro Co Rat, the Boss DS-1 (monte allums mod), and the Fulltone Fat Boost, but I wanna listen to the amp first. If i'm satisfied with the overall sound of the amp then I''l worry about pedal later.
I'm just starting out man (gear-wise). As soon as i get the cash I'm gonna get me a Vox Night Train. Which is gonna be a HUGE change since my main amp is a Line 6 Spider 3. The only pedal I have atm is a Bad Horsie 2, I'm asking questions before i start making decisions. The pedals I'm currently interested in are the Pro Co Rat, the Boss DS-1 (monte allums mod), and the Fulltone Fat Boost, but I wanna listen to the amp first. If i'm satisfied with the overall sound of the amp then I''l worry about pedal later.
GuitarStv
Sock Market Trader
Re: Boss pedals
This is commonly believed, but doesn't really test if something is true bypass or not.
You can still have components attached to the circuit bleeding off treble and get signal to pass through a pedal without a battery. A lot of wahs, MXR pedals, Maxon, and Electro-Harmonix stuff runs this way. A true bypass switch should completely isolate the signal from the circuit when your effect is off. (The effect basically becomes a patch cable when bypassed.) A DPDT switch is usually a better indicator of the type of bypass that you have.
This is commonly believed, but doesn't really test if something is true bypass or not.
You can still have components attached to the circuit bleeding off treble and get signal to pass through a pedal without a battery. A lot of wahs, MXR pedals, Maxon, and Electro-Harmonix stuff runs this way. A true bypass switch should completely isolate the signal from the circuit when your effect is off. (The effect basically becomes a patch cable when bypassed.) A DPDT switch is usually a better indicator of the type of bypass that you have.
Pink Unicorn Horsey
Megä Pöny Rÿdr
lex666
New member
Re: Boss pedals
I've always just followed the logic, "if it sounds good, use it".
I've also heard that a long chain of true bypass pedals can be a major tone sucker and you should mix in a buffered pedal somehwere... I wouldn't hesitate to mix buffered and bypass pedals together. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on bypass vs. bufferred. Placement in the chain is probably more important.
I've always just followed the logic, "if it sounds good, use it".
I've also heard that a long chain of true bypass pedals can be a major tone sucker and you should mix in a buffered pedal somehwere... I wouldn't hesitate to mix buffered and bypass pedals together. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on bypass vs. bufferred. Placement in the chain is probably more important.
Chickenwings
Alnico 6/8
Re: Boss pedals
I have noticed a small drop in high end with boss overdrives and distortions, but at a gig, no one will hear the difference. There is a bigger drop with my chorus and phaser, which makes sense when the circuit is engaed because they are more complex, but how come it is more noticeable in bypass?
Some buffered bypasses can improve the sound...expensive: MI audio boost and buff....cheap: Morley wahs.
Also - if you cant tell the difference jus tby using your ears, then don worry whether its true bypass or not!
I have noticed a small drop in high end with boss overdrives and distortions, but at a gig, no one will hear the difference. There is a bigger drop with my chorus and phaser, which makes sense when the circuit is engaed because they are more complex, but how come it is more noticeable in bypass?
Some buffered bypasses can improve the sound...expensive: MI audio boost and buff....cheap: Morley wahs.
Also - if you cant tell the difference jus tby using your ears, then don worry whether its true bypass or not!
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Re: Boss pedals
I've always understood that the more effects you have in a chain, the more you're gonna need to have some buffering to compensate. I believe I read that in "the guitar effect pedal handbook" by Dave Hunter (very interesting read btw...I highly recommend it).
True bypass is one thing but it's not "true bypass = good", buffering=bad kinda thing. I believe a lot of the true-bypass fashion is a lot of hype with of course some truth, pros and cons. A bit like Class A for amps... just my humble opinion though...
The important thing is the end-result...
I've always understood that the more effects you have in a chain, the more you're gonna need to have some buffering to compensate. I believe I read that in "the guitar effect pedal handbook" by Dave Hunter (very interesting read btw...I highly recommend it).
True bypass is one thing but it's not "true bypass = good", buffering=bad kinda thing. I believe a lot of the true-bypass fashion is a lot of hype with of course some truth, pros and cons. A bit like Class A for amps... just my humble opinion though...
The important thing is the end-result...
Top Jimmy
New member
Re: Boss pedals
I dunno. I was just reading a Guitar Player mag and over half of the pro's have one if not multiple Boss pedals in their rig. Zakk, Satch, Petrucci, etc, etc, etc, etc. The only people that didn't were almost all rack gear. Satch had like 5, two delays, DS-1, and a coiple others.
And it wan't the same pedals. Some had phasers, some had distortion, some had delay, chorus, etc, etc.
Guess if it's good enough for the pro's, it's good enough for me.
I dunno. I was just reading a Guitar Player mag and over half of the pro's have one if not multiple Boss pedals in their rig. Zakk, Satch, Petrucci, etc, etc, etc, etc. The only people that didn't were almost all rack gear. Satch had like 5, two delays, DS-1, and a coiple others.
And it wan't the same pedals. Some had phasers, some had distortion, some had delay, chorus, etc, etc.
Guess if it's good enough for the pro's, it's good enough for me.
GuitarStv
Sock Market Trader
Re: Boss pedals
In my experience, passing a signal through any more than 4 - 5 buffered boss pedals is where I start to really notice a difference in sound between going through them and going straight into the amp. I don't really think that a single boss pedal makes a noticeable difference to be honest.
In my experience, passing a signal through any more than 4 - 5 buffered boss pedals is where I start to really notice a difference in sound between going through them and going straight into the amp. I don't really think that a single boss pedal makes a noticeable difference to be honest.
jimijames
New member
Re: Boss pedals
There's also a difference in quality of the buffers - For example, the buffers on stock boss pedals aren't as good as the ones that you can get on Malekko pedals.
Personally, if you drive a lot of cord, I would have a buffered pedal or two. Near the end of last year I spent a lot of time swapping out components on effects (I don't know the theory, but there are tons of guides on the internet so I'm more of a hack than anything) and there's a few things you can do to get the boss buffers to put more high end through. Actually, with the changes to the buffer circuit, my sound is actually a bit more clear with two 10' cables than it is with just a 10' cable straight into my amp.
As with anything, YMMV.
There's also a difference in quality of the buffers - For example, the buffers on stock boss pedals aren't as good as the ones that you can get on Malekko pedals.
Personally, if you drive a lot of cord, I would have a buffered pedal or two. Near the end of last year I spent a lot of time swapping out components on effects (I don't know the theory, but there are tons of guides on the internet so I'm more of a hack than anything) and there's a few things you can do to get the boss buffers to put more high end through. Actually, with the changes to the buffer circuit, my sound is actually a bit more clear with two 10' cables than it is with just a 10' cable straight into my amp.
As with anything, YMMV.