Boss Products

[mantis]

Hello all,
I've been a very long time user of Boss products. Their pedals are top notch compared to everything on the market in my opinion especially things like Delay and Chorus. I think they excel in those areas.
The GT series has been improving over the years but they never match the quality of their stand along pedals. I have not used the GT-1000 and I'm trying my best not to pick one up.
I recently got into the 500 series and picked up the RV 500 and DD 500. I think the quality of these processor pedals are on par with the stand alone pedals even the mighty Waza analogs which I have a few of. The waza analog delay is something very special and the DD-500 really nails the organic sound better then anything else I ever used prior.
I have the Waza analog chorus and that is another very special sounding pedal and I'm probably just gonna go get the MD-500 as it's haunting me not having it. Yeah I got issues LOL.
Anyway I use to own a MS-3 which was in my opinion a break through in design but failed to me in performance. I don't think it was any better if not worse then the GT-100 of years ago which I use to own. I pre ordered it ( Actually my wife got it for my for my Birthday) and was amazingly excited to use it only to find out to me it sounded like ass almost like a toy or a cheaper version of what Boss stands for. I didn't get it at all.
It's like Boss isn't consistent in their quality. The MS-3's built quality was Boss level quality I was just shocked at the overall sound quality. I wanted that to be fantastic and it sucked.
So now taking a leap of faith on the 500 series pedals processors I can't imagine how Boss can make such fantastic pedals in this form but fail terribly in the MS-3. I don't get it. The ES-8 which I own is stupidly badass, is about as transparent to your system as one could want, does everything right with no flaws. I love everything about it. The 500 series pedals are exactly what I wish the MS-3 was sound quality wise. Boss edit features are deep and plentiful to the point of overkill.

So what is your opinion on this? Why didn't Boss release a 500 level MS-3? Why do they have levels at all? They are one of the most respected brands in the business yet they relate things like the MS-3 that just sucked or at least I think so. I have owned so many Boss products and don't see consistency. You can't say technology moves forward and things get better here as the DD-500 was out before the MS-3 so Boss already had the 500 technology.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Boss Products

Roland/Boss has certainly produced dogs in the past. My thought is that they don't engage with users much, and tend to not actually listen to what their users suggest. I've owned their rack gear for years and every single one of them could have easily been improved, but instead of coming out with firmware upgrades, they just abandon them.

 

[Blille]

Boss Products

Really glad the ES and 500 series work for you and your setup. The MS-3 is still perfect for my rig, great small switcher and the effects are a great bonus. I don’t have any buffer issues, I find the 3 loops enough since I don’t use the 4CM and it replaced a bunch of secondary pedals I rarely use very well, and I’m not alone

Said differently

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Boss Products

I generally like Boss stuff, but have really only used their compact pedals. They make stuff that's very dependable, isn't too expensive, and generally does what it's designed to do somewhere between "awesome" and "good enough".

I've owned, used and enjoyed:
BD-2, OD-2, OD-3, DS-1, DS-2, PS-2, PS-3, DD-3, DM-2

I've owned, but never really gelled with (but could see how someone would :
PH-3, CE-2, BF-2, BF-3, CE-5, CS-3, OC-2, TR-2

Total garbage that boss has made that I've owned:
AC-2, MT-2, PSM-5

 

[Demanic]

Re: Boss Products

I generally like Boss stuff, but have really only used their compact pedals. They make stuff that's very dependable, isn't too expensive, and generally does what it's designed to do somewhere between "awesome" and "good enough".

I've owned, used and enjoyed:
BD-2, OD-2, OD-3, DS-1, DS-2, PS-2, PS-3, DD-3, DM-2

I've owned, but never really gelled with (but could see how someone would :
PH-3, CE-2, BF-2, BF-3, CE-5, CS-3, OC-2, TR-2

Total garbage that boss has made that I've owned:
AC-2, MT-2, PSM-5

You have no idea how happy I am to know that you think that the MT-2 is total garbage.

Sent from my Alcatel_5044C using Tapatalk

 

[NegativeEase]

Re: Boss Products

I traditionally love most of the Boss stuff, largely because they were the best or only thing going at many times in the past (remember when EHX quit making pedals all together??) . -they certainly hold the title for the most innovation in digital guitar effects history.

I will say I bought a DD7 recently that had a just terrible buffer -really disappointing, the tone sucking created -felt like I had a Line 6 pedal from back in the day.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Boss Products

You have no idea how happy I am to know that you think that the MT-2 is total garbage.

Not total garbage. It worked well as a doorstop in the music room until I sold it.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Boss Products

Not total garbage. It worked well as a doorstop in the music room until I sold it.

Good enough for my purposes.

Sent from my Alcatel_5044C using Tapatalk

 

[LLL]

Re: Boss Products

BOSS is the Earl Schieb of effects.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Boss Products

When it comes to digital effects, it’s all down to processing power and algorithm quality. The 500 series effects have some serious digital horsepower under the hood and they are doing only one or two effects at a time. The MS-3 (and lots of other multieffects units) can do many, many effects at once, so they are splitting processing power between all the algorithms. Algorithm quality can overcome processing power (look at the Line 6 reverbs and especially delays from 20 years ago, other than the springs they sound pretty good today) but if they are just dumbed down to fit more in a box they won’t be as good. I think distortion and overdrive are the hardest, all those digital units sounded terrible to be, and only since they’ve essentially been using a laptop level of power (Kemper, Fractal, Helix) have they started sounding decent.

Anyway, the key is you found what you do like....

 

[Aceman]

Re: Boss Products

Boss is not a pedal company. They are a division of Roland, a major musical product company. Big company can equal big variation in results.


But I agree - Boss can be hit or miss. Overall, though, they are a solid price/performer. They dot try to do quite a lot, and get a lot of it right. Today we have so many choices there is always someone doing what we want better.

For the record, a cheap import meh pickup guitar into a metal zone, into a Crate solid state amp will sound pretty bad@$$ if playing the right music.

 

[Coma]

Re: Boss Products

They're hit or miss. MT2 still doesn't sound great, regardless of what Ola Englund says. NS2 works so well I recently bought a second one, and that circuit is now over 30 years old.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Boss Products

For the record, a cheap import meh pickup guitar into a metal zone, into a Crate solid state amp will sound pretty bad@$$ if playing the right music.

If playing the right music, you would never have picked up a metal zone to begin with.

 

[Blille]

Re: Boss Products

If playing the right music, you would never have picked up a metal zone to begin with.

MT-2 is perfect for Bee Metal.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Boss Products

Eric the Half a Bee Metal

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Boss Products

If playing the right music, you would never have picked up a metal zone to begin with.

Or at least picked up a U.S. Metal instead.

 

[devastone]

Re: Boss Products

I haven't used the MS-3 and I can't guarantee it, but I'm pretty sure the algorithms in the MS-3 are the same as the GT-100, but effects only. I did use a GT-100 for years and use a GT-1000 now, one of the important things to set is the input level, and it sounds like you may have been feeding it too much. Digital doesn't like levels that are too hot, you start distorting the converters and that, as you said, sounds like a$$. You may even be distorting the buffers which turns anything into a fuzz (again, I don't know if the MS-3 is designed to work in line level loops), albeit not a good one, I learned that a long time ago when I tried to use my DD-3(?) in the loop of a borrowed amp and it made everything sound bad whether it was on or off, that was before the interwebs so I had to figure that out on my own.

 

[mantis]

Re: Boss Products

I haven't used the MS-3 and I can't guarantee it, but I'm pretty sure the algorithms in the MS-3 are the same as the GT-100, but effects only. I did use a GT-100 for years and use a GT-1000 now, one of the important things to set is the input level, and it sounds like you may have been feeding it too much. Digital doesn't like levels that are too hot, you start distorting the converters and that, as you said, sounds like a$$. You may even be distorting the buffers which turns anything into a fuzz (again, I don't know if the MS-3 is designed to work in line level loops), albeit not a good one, I learned that a long time ago when I tried to use my DD-3(?) in the loop of a borrowed amp and it made everything sound bad whether it was on or off, that was before the interwebs so I had to figure that out on my own.

Great insight on this topic as your versed in Boss products like the GT-100 which I also had. What was cool about the GT-100 is you can build a path, I forget how where you can test your guitars input and adjust the GT-100 accordingly. I usually ran my Charvel loaded with either TB-4 or a Duncan Distortion at -4 input level. I didn't know how to adjust that on the MS-3 which very well could have been apart of the terrible tone I got out of it. Let me take that slightly back, it was not the same level as the 500 series pedals today or even pedals then like the DD-7 which I had at that time. I also had an array of tc electronics pedals which all sounded better then the MS-3.

So think about this for a minute which always bothered me about eh entire GT series. INPUT and OUTPUT levels. Most normal pedals don't have this adjustment. Like example the DD-7 or the Waza Chorus or delay. Or even the Blues Driver just to name a few. They all work exactly how you would like them in your chain of effects out front and or in the effects loop. BUT the GT series wants you to setup your INPUT and OUTPUT levels. I'd assume by selecting the type of amp your using should have pre adjusted for those style of amps. Owning a GT product you know what I'm talking about. Small Combo, Stack etc. I'll also be honest over my years I always a bit intimated by the GT line. I had an 8, 10 and 100.

What is your deeper opinion on the GT-1000? I keep hearing great things about it and really wouldn't mind grabbing one. Again I said this before I'll probably allow the upgrade bug to big the **** out of me and I'll run up and get one. I'm currently struggling with the MD-500 that I don't need at all but want the hell out of LOL.

Thanks man for your comments dude.

 

[devastone]

Re: Boss Products

Thanks, and again, I haven't used the MS-3 so I could be out in the weeds on it, but setting the input level was important on the 100 and also is on the 1000. I got the 1000 because of the amp models, I run direct and the AIRD models are a big improvement. Would I have upgraded just for effects, I'm not sure, but I doubt it.

That said, should I have looked at the Helix or Headrush? Maybe, I got a great deal on the GT so I went for it. I'm sure I could have gotten great sounds out of any of them, and been just as frustrated by "option anxiety".

 

[Hank-]

Re: Boss Products

The primary problem with the ms3 for me is that the three loops are not moveable in the signal path, they one after the other. Boss might be able to release a firmware update to unlock that but they haven't bothered. I would have loved to get one otherwise because i use amp sim pedals & the ms3 would had been perfect for me.