Bridge VS Neck.....basically what is the design difference ??

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: Bridge VS Neck.....basically what is the design difference ??

More resistance means more output: here we go again. :smack:

It doesn't??? Then why do ALL the pickup companies list it???

"Here is a useless number than means nothing..." Do you think I believe that? I'm not gullible.

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: Bridge VS Neck.....basically what is the design difference ??

What is the basic design difference between neck and bridge pickups.....?
The reason I am asking is I am thinking of putting a bridge P/U in a neck position.....

Thanks

It's more or less arbitrary. In the 50's there was no difference, and pickups were not even wound to be "hot" or "cool", they just wound them to whatever. As the aftermarket pickup industry came along and got specific, they decided that at the same time they could remedy the output disparity between the bridge and the neck pickup by making the bridge hotter. The extent to which the bridge is hotter and the neck cooler is decided whimsically by the pickup manufacturer, as there is obviously no formal procedures involved in calculating what the difference between them should be. Most pickups making companies like Seymour Duncan have favored neck and bridge version of a given pickup model, where as a few like DiMarzio would just have models that were intended for the bridge, like the Super Distortion, and others intended for the neck, like the PAF Pro, with the idea that guitarists would more freely mix and match on their own. In general, the neck/bridge of one named model has won out in the market place.

 

[gregory]

Re: Bridge VS Neck.....basically what is the design difference ??

It doesn't??? Then why do ALL the pickup companies list it???

"Here is a useless number than means nothing..." Do you think I believe that? I'm not gullible.

From the guy who essentially said all pickups that use the same length of wire sound the same and that dual resonance is basically a hoax, and then refused to acknowledge anything else others had to say on the subject, I'm not going to waste my time.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Bridge VS Neck.....basically what is the design difference ??

It doesn't??? Then why do ALL the pickup companies list it???

"Here is a useless number than means nothing..." Do you think I believe that? I'm not gullible.

Easy there big fella... did you read the other posts? He’s actually quite correct because there are other factors at work as well that affect output. Using DC resistance as an indicator for output is okay as a generalization but it’s definitely NOT foolproof.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Bridge VS Neck.....basically what is the design difference ??

I was referring to Gregory. He is an Electrical Engineer, most of us arent.

I am too, but how does that make a difference? I'm an electrical engineer and for the longest time I thought the JB and RTM were the same wind. Your occupation doesn't guarantee any knowledge of guitar hardware.

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: Bridge VS Neck.....basically what is the design difference ??

Easy there big fella... did you read the other posts? He’s actually quite correct because there are other factors at work as well that affect output. Using DC resistance as an indicator for output is okay as a generalization but it’s definitely NOT foolproof.

But I trust Seymour Duncan! Why would they list that one factor, and not all these other factors you speak of??? Why not list the price of tea in China while they're at it?

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Bridge VS Neck.....basically what is the design difference ??

But I trust Seymour Duncan! Why would they list that one factor, and not all these other factors you speak of???

I honestly don’t know. Maybe because it makes it difficult to easily compare from one brand to another?

Sounds like a better question for S-D than for me.

Here’s one thing I can tell you though. I have 10 electric guitars and some of them vary noticeably in terms of output. Two that DON’T vary much are these:

They’re VERY close in terms of output. In fact, if I had to pick one, I’d say that the Ibby seems a little louder. You can see the pickups I have in them, so here are the DCRs from S-D and GFS as their websites show right now:

S-D JB @ 16.6k
S-D Jazz @ 7.5k

GFS Dream 180 Bridge @ 9.0k
GFS Dream 180 Neck @ 7.8k

The neck p’ups are very close to one another but the JB is almost twice the DCR as the Dream 180 Bridge. These two bridge pickups are also pretty much the same distance from the strings so how could their output be the same?

There must be other factors involved. Sure, it could be the guitars themselves but wood-wise they’re pretty much the same and their shapes are also similar. And let’s face it, pickups make a lot more difference than wood/construction anyway. Is this proof? Hardly. But it gives a pretty good example of what we’re talking about and you can find similar examples all over the place. Try doing a search about the factors involved in pickup output and you’ll see what we mean.

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: Bridge VS Neck.....basically what is the design difference ??

I honestly don’t know. Maybe because it makes it difficult to easily compare from one brand to another?

Sounds like a better question for S-D than for me.

Here’s one thing I can tell you though. I have 10 electric guitars and some of them vary noticeably in terms of output. Two that DON’T vary much are these:....

I hear what you're saying, but do I trust BriGuy1968, or do I trust a company with over forty years in the industry and the endorsement of countless musical artists? AFAIK, Seymour Duncan Co. has not said the DC resistance doesn't relate to output, so I trust that their implication is that is does, otherwise... why list a trivial metric that has no bearing on the products performance?

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Bridge VS Neck.....basically what is the design difference ??

But I trust Seymour Duncan! Why would they list that one factor, and not all these other factors you speak of??? Why not list the price of tea in China while they're at it?

More people get into about their pickups here than the pickup description from the SD website. Some companies like DMZ measure output in millivolts, don't ask me why SD doesn't. But if I had to wager a guess, it's because there are so many other variables to volume than just the pickup.

 

[Jacew]

Re: Bridge VS Neck.....basically what is the design difference ??

I’m not sure to whom you’re directing the question, but I think you’re talking about DC resistance. If so, you’re absolutely correct... higher DC resistance correlates to higher output more times than not. Also you’re right about the fact that most companies don’t give you anything else to go by so you’re limited to using it as a guide even though it’s not foolproof. It’s really kind of a shame that there’s not a more universal way to compare pickups in terms of output used by the manufacturers.

Indeed. But I think SD is really good at explaining what their pickups are like. And this forum is possibly the best resource in internet for that knowledge.

Reason I bought my first SD pickups was actually exactly that. I understood from the webpage what the pickups were supposed to be like, and where they fit tonally.

Most companies just give you marketing jargon that doesn't tell anything about the actual product. "Vintage", "Classic", "Modern", "Punchy" "Hot" tone etc...

If you read at DiMarzio webpage as layman, you'd think all their pickups are great for whatever you want them for.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Bridge VS Neck.....basically what is the design difference ??

I hear what you're saying, but do I trust BriGuy1968, or do I trust a company with over forty years in the industry and the endorsement of countless musical artists? AFAIK, Seymour Duncan Co. has not said the DC resistance doesn't relate to output, so I trust that their implication is that is does, otherwise... why list a trivial metric that has no bearing on the products performance?

DCR has become the default......not because it is particularly indicative of output but because it has been an easily digestible figure for the layman. It is so ubiquitous that any new winder needs to have that figure in their literature too, even though winders know full well that there are many factors more indicative of output.

There is NO single metric that tells you what a pickup will do. I'm pretty sure you could wind half a dozen 8K humbuckers and they would all be remarkably different......not the least because you have to run them through an amp and speaker to hear differences. And neither are particularly hifi.

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: Bridge VS Neck.....basically what is the design difference ??

More people get into about their pickups here than the pickup description from the SD website. Some companies like DMZ measure output in millivolts, don't ask me why SD doesn't. But if I had to wager a guess, it's because there are so many other variables to volume than just the pickup.

Maybe the DC resistance doesn't indicate output, maybe it indicates how bright the pickup is. It has to mean something of great significance, since along with magnet type, it's the only thing they list about the pickup! All this talk about the DC resistance not mattering flies in the face of assurances coming from professionals with forty years in the business!

 

[AlexR]

Re: Bridge VS Neck.....basically what is the design difference ??

Just because something is done doesn't mean it is necessarily relevant. These sort of metrics took off in the 70's and more likely 80's....the time when marketing departments were in full swing. Is it that hard for you to realise that spin and simplification is a valid marketing strategy to sell something.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Bridge VS Neck.....basically what is the design difference ??

Also, nobody is saying that DCR doesn’t matter. It does indeed matter... it’s just not the ONLY thing that matters in the equation.

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: Bridge VS Neck.....basically what is the design difference ??

Also, nobody is saying that DCR doesn’t matter. It does indeed matter... it’s just not the ONLY thing that matters in the equation.

So what does DC resistance influence? The output? The trebles?

 

[AlexR]

Re: Bridge VS Neck.....basically what is the design difference ??

Nothing specifically.
It can tell you how many turns there are in a pickup - if you know the wire gauge and the tension that its been wound to. Otherwise it gives a VERY rough indication of the output level that you might expect.......but only 'low', 'medium' or 'high'......but even then its more inaccurate than accurate. But there are so many exceptions to the rule that there is no more rule anymore.

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: Bridge VS Neck.....basically what is the design difference ??

Then why doesn't Seymour Duncan also tell us the wire gauge and the tension that it's wound to?

 

[AlexR]

Re: Bridge VS Neck.....basically what is the design difference ??

Why are you asking me this??? Surely even you can see this is a question for the management. If I were to guess, I would say the layperson on the street wouldn't understand the least bit about turns and wire gauge or the like - just the same way they can't grasp that DCR is a poor indication.
Inductance however is listed - so thats the better indicator by far.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Bridge VS Neck.....basically what is the design difference ??

Where can I find a pickup's inductance?

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Bridge VS Neck.....basically what is the design difference ??

Then why doesn't Seymour Duncan also tell us the wire gauge and the tension that it's wound to?

Like I said before... really a better question for Seymour Duncan.