Christopher Caruana
New member
Can anyone explain to me what the differences are between british and american sounding amps? or what the characteristics are of an "American" sound and a "British" sound.
British vs. American sound?
- Thread starter Christopher Caruana
- Start date
James Rock
Active member
Re: British vs. American sound?
In basic terms
Fender Blackface Clean - american
VOX AC30 clean - British
Marshall Distortion - British
Mesa Distortion - American
British sound uses el84s or el34s
American uses 6L6s
British has more woody sounding mids
American is more hollow I guess.
Massive generalization and there is alot more to it then that but thats what comes t mind when people compare them
In basic terms
Fender Blackface Clean - american
VOX AC30 clean - British
Marshall Distortion - British
Mesa Distortion - American
British sound uses el84s or el34s
American uses 6L6s
British has more woody sounding mids
American is more hollow I guess.
Massive generalization and there is alot more to it then that but thats what comes t mind when people compare them
thespricket
New member
Re: British vs. American sound?
It's more so what the amps are associated with. A lot of bands who's sound is associated with the British sound used British amps: Early Beatles, Zeppelin, Clapton. That's all Vox/Marshall domain. To me the best way to describe the difference is that the typical american sounding amps were bright loud fenders. Now, this is a generalization. But for me, when someone talks about a very "British" sound, they're usually generalizing the sound of the late 60's loud marshalls. Big, rude, and fat. It goes either way, to me. The Stones had very American sound while Hendrix had more British.
Also over the years, the lines have grayed. When saying US/UK people can also be referring to heavier distortion from a Mesa (US) to a Marshall (UK).
Of course, I may be wrong. But this is always how I perceived it. It's also a little hard to explain, seeing how none of it is written law.
It's more so what the amps are associated with. A lot of bands who's sound is associated with the British sound used British amps: Early Beatles, Zeppelin, Clapton. That's all Vox/Marshall domain. To me the best way to describe the difference is that the typical american sounding amps were bright loud fenders. Now, this is a generalization. But for me, when someone talks about a very "British" sound, they're usually generalizing the sound of the late 60's loud marshalls. Big, rude, and fat. It goes either way, to me. The Stones had very American sound while Hendrix had more British.
Also over the years, the lines have grayed. When saying US/UK people can also be referring to heavier distortion from a Mesa (US) to a Marshall (UK).
Of course, I may be wrong. But this is always how I perceived it. It's also a little hard to explain, seeing how none of it is written law.
Christopher Caruana
New member
Re: British vs. American sound?
Well im asking because in another post I had about a Laney AOR, someone said something along the lines of "it wont sound like a marshall, but it'll sound like a british amp." Which leads me to another question.....How do you "not" sound like a marshall, but still have a "british" sound? Everytime I think of a british sound, i think Marshall.
Well im asking because in another post I had about a Laney AOR, someone said something along the lines of "it wont sound like a marshall, but it'll sound like a british amp." Which leads me to another question.....How do you "not" sound like a marshall, but still have a "british" sound? Everytime I think of a british sound, i think Marshall.
Chickenwings
Alnico 6/8
Re: British vs. American sound?
to me Marshalls and voxes have very little in common but they are both British amps. Fenders and soldanos have very little in common - but they are both US. Peavey classics have more in common with voxes than fenders. Fender tweed amps and mesa boogies are wildly different. The first marshalls were fender bassman copies. The distinction between British and American amps probably just appeared when modelling amps came out and manufacturers could not use the words "marshall" "fender" "vox" "boogie" etc. so they used terms like "british" "american" class A" and "recto".
The distinction is kind of silly.
to me Marshalls and voxes have very little in common but they are both British amps. Fenders and soldanos have very little in common - but they are both US. Peavey classics have more in common with voxes than fenders. Fender tweed amps and mesa boogies are wildly different. The first marshalls were fender bassman copies. The distinction between British and American amps probably just appeared when modelling amps came out and manufacturers could not use the words "marshall" "fender" "vox" "boogie" etc. so they used terms like "british" "american" class A" and "recto".
The distinction is kind of silly.
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: British vs. American sound?
I like both, but ultimately realize MY tone is EL-34 and EL-84. I still like the Fender 6L6 sound though, but I like the midrange breakup of the British sound the most. 6L6's are great for clean and OK for crunch. 6V6 amps really depend....the more British sounding the preamp is, the more I like it. The more American RCA it is, the less I like it.
I've owned a lot of American voiced amps from Fender and Fender boutique copies, so it's not like I'm not used to the tone. I still like Blackface type Fenders, but am completely tired of the tweed Bassman/Deluxe type sound....it's just too nasally and farty for my ears.....the Brit type amps do that sound better IMO.
And I agree with Gibson175's assessment, where you can start dividing up the American/Brit sound, where it's not even definitive anymore. Nowadays, we consider the Mesa sound to be "California" and it's almost embarassing, because so many Californians can't even stand Mesas, yet the rest of the world is enamoured by them.....and are bummed that they can't afford them. In our opinion, save your money.....don't even buy them! LOL
I have a feeling the Brits may feel the same about Orange....they can't believe Americans love them so much. I know it's a generalization, but I think Americans laugh about Brits loving Mesa so much, and Brits laugh about Americans loving Orange so much.....maybe I'm completely wrong, but it's a thought.
I like both, but ultimately realize MY tone is EL-34 and EL-84. I still like the Fender 6L6 sound though, but I like the midrange breakup of the British sound the most. 6L6's are great for clean and OK for crunch. 6V6 amps really depend....the more British sounding the preamp is, the more I like it. The more American RCA it is, the less I like it.
I've owned a lot of American voiced amps from Fender and Fender boutique copies, so it's not like I'm not used to the tone. I still like Blackface type Fenders, but am completely tired of the tweed Bassman/Deluxe type sound....it's just too nasally and farty for my ears.....the Brit type amps do that sound better IMO.
And I agree with Gibson175's assessment, where you can start dividing up the American/Brit sound, where it's not even definitive anymore. Nowadays, we consider the Mesa sound to be "California" and it's almost embarassing, because so many Californians can't even stand Mesas, yet the rest of the world is enamoured by them.....and are bummed that they can't afford them. In our opinion, save your money.....don't even buy them! LOL
I have a feeling the Brits may feel the same about Orange....they can't believe Americans love them so much. I know it's a generalization, but I think Americans laugh about Brits loving Mesa so much, and Brits laugh about Americans loving Orange so much.....maybe I'm completely wrong, but it's a thought.
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Laughing Kookaburra
Active member
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: British vs. American sound?
Yeah, since you could include Peavey, Crate, Mesa, Soldano into the Ameican sound, and a whole mishmash of British amps into that equation, the distinction is almost impossible to discuss.
The main way to divide the tones is to say Fender 6L6 Blackface, Fender 6V6 Deluxe Reverb, Marshall EL-34, and Vox EL-84. Traditionally that's the way to divide the 4 tones, and still is. But then, there's dozens of ways to sub-divide that.
Yeah, since you could include Peavey, Crate, Mesa, Soldano into the Ameican sound, and a whole mishmash of British amps into that equation, the distinction is almost impossible to discuss.
The main way to divide the tones is to say Fender 6L6 Blackface, Fender 6V6 Deluxe Reverb, Marshall EL-34, and Vox EL-84. Traditionally that's the way to divide the 4 tones, and still is. But then, there's dozens of ways to sub-divide that.
FuseG4
Our Neighbor Totoro
Re: British vs. American sound?
I generally feel the british sound vs american tone kinda like this, In the most general way possible, doesn't apply to all amps.
brit: bass- round, slightly compressed. mids- prominent/thick. Highs- all over the map.
american: bass: plucky, powerful, piano-like when clean. Mids- normal mids ranging to really scooped (fender blackface). Highs- all over the map.
I generally feel the british sound vs american tone kinda like this, In the most general way possible, doesn't apply to all amps.
brit: bass- round, slightly compressed. mids- prominent/thick. Highs- all over the map.
american: bass: plucky, powerful, piano-like when clean. Mids- normal mids ranging to really scooped (fender blackface). Highs- all over the map.
karpathion
New member
Re: British vs. American sound?
American on the left, British on the right.
I like both!
American on the left, British on the right.
I like both!
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RealtyViking
New member
Re: British vs. American sound?
I always think of American amps as the extremes. British tones are in the middle.
US Fender - Chime
Brit AC30 - Clean
Brit Marshal - Crunch
US Mesa - WTF
I always think of American amps as the extremes. British tones are in the middle.
US Fender - Chime
Brit AC30 - Clean
Brit Marshal - Crunch
US Mesa - WTF
Simon_F
Super Moderator
Re: British vs. American sound?
I think you're right. I'd never heard those words applied to amps before modelling amps appeared. It is a pretty silly way of describing an amp. British amps sound like this, American amps sound like that. It's a very reductive way of looking at things. Marshall vs. Fender or Vox vs. Mesa makes more sense but even then there is an assumption that those manufacturers are tied in to a particular sound. I know that what I like is the Marshall sound. Every guitarist I idolised as a kid played Marshall amps. Is that Jimi Hendrix Marshall or Iron Maiden Marshall? Nah, it's more Paul Kossoff Marshall and Thin Lizzy Marshall. Would that be Robbo Thin Lizzy Marshall or Sykes Thin Lizzy Marshall? Robbo obviously...
That person could be British or American
I think you're right. I'd never heard those words applied to amps before modelling amps appeared. It is a pretty silly way of describing an amp. British amps sound like this, American amps sound like that. It's a very reductive way of looking at things. Marshall vs. Fender or Vox vs. Mesa makes more sense but even then there is an assumption that those manufacturers are tied in to a particular sound. I know that what I like is the Marshall sound. Every guitarist I idolised as a kid played Marshall amps. Is that Jimi Hendrix Marshall or Iron Maiden Marshall? Nah, it's more Paul Kossoff Marshall and Thin Lizzy Marshall. Would that be Robbo Thin Lizzy Marshall or Sykes Thin Lizzy Marshall? Robbo obviously...
That person could be British or American
guitfiddle
firstlessonologist
Re: British vs. American sound?
I think it's fair to say that, apart from anything any of the amps ever did, the more important thing is that British BANDS sound different than American BANDS. Not so much the amps. Besides, almost every one of the successful Brit bands back in the day used US made instruments...:scratchch
Disclaimer: EL84 amps are not automatically British...Gibson and a slew of other US companies were making amps with 6BQ5 tubes a good ten years before VOX appeared. My Peavey C-50 doesn't sound like a VOX.
I think it's fair to say that, apart from anything any of the amps ever did, the more important thing is that British BANDS sound different than American BANDS. Not so much the amps. Besides, almost every one of the successful Brit bands back in the day used US made instruments...:scratchch
Disclaimer: EL84 amps are not automatically British...Gibson and a slew of other US companies were making amps with 6BQ5 tubes a good ten years before VOX appeared. My Peavey C-50 doesn't sound like a VOX.
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JeffB
Let it B
Re: British vs. American sound?
Since I'm the "originator" of this thread (the person who mentioned the "british vs. american thing) I'll put in my 2 cents. First of all- Modelling amps have not been around that long- People have been talking about "american" vs. "british" type tone for decades.
To me the "american" sound is that of 6L6s and 6v6 amps- generally more depth of tone, with higher highs and lower lows, they can be mid light (blackface) or mid "neutral" (tweeds) and pushed to extremes gets they get very farty and/or fizzy sounding breakup. even today, a Mesa Mark series (which were originally just hot rodded fender champs) or Rectifier has this "american" type depth of tone, and fizzyness. Add a few gain stages to a Bassman, tighten it up and put it through some modern speakers, and you'd have something very close to a rectifier.
The "british" sounding amps are the El84s and El34 amps, they have more complex mids and harmonic ovetones, tend to be mid focused and don't have the depth of highs and lows of the american amps. As the power tubes get cooking they tend to compress a bit and get a less farty/buzzy sound and more of a tighter "crunch". Despite not sounding alike, a AC30 cranked and a PLexi Cranked have alot in common tonally.
and this doesn't even include the american vs. british speaker equation which is another kettle of fish.
Since I'm the "originator" of this thread (the person who mentioned the "british vs. american thing) I'll put in my 2 cents. First of all- Modelling amps have not been around that long- People have been talking about "american" vs. "british" type tone for decades.
To me the "american" sound is that of 6L6s and 6v6 amps- generally more depth of tone, with higher highs and lower lows, they can be mid light (blackface) or mid "neutral" (tweeds) and pushed to extremes gets they get very farty and/or fizzy sounding breakup. even today, a Mesa Mark series (which were originally just hot rodded fender champs) or Rectifier has this "american" type depth of tone, and fizzyness. Add a few gain stages to a Bassman, tighten it up and put it through some modern speakers, and you'd have something very close to a rectifier.
The "british" sounding amps are the El84s and El34 amps, they have more complex mids and harmonic ovetones, tend to be mid focused and don't have the depth of highs and lows of the american amps. As the power tubes get cooking they tend to compress a bit and get a less farty/buzzy sound and more of a tighter "crunch". Despite not sounding alike, a AC30 cranked and a PLexi Cranked have alot in common tonally.
and this doesn't even include the american vs. british speaker equation which is another kettle of fish.
Simon_F
Super Moderator
Re: British vs. American sound?
And wouldn't have existed without the inspiration of US artists. There would have been no "British invasion" without Little Richard, Chuck Berry, the three Kings, Muddy Waters, Elvis Presley, Buddy Holly etc etc....
And wouldn't have existed without the inspiration of US artists. There would have been no "British invasion" without Little Richard, Chuck Berry, the three Kings, Muddy Waters, Elvis Presley, Buddy Holly etc etc....
JeffB
Let it B
Re: British vs. American sound?
Here's an interesting comparison
A 65 Amps demo- 2 amps- both have the same preamp section (based on an nevevr produced VOX amp from the early 60s)
Here they matched it up with EL84s and called it the Lil' Elvis
And then they matched the same pre-amp up with a 6V6 power section and you have the Tupelo
Here's an interesting comparison
A 65 Amps demo- 2 amps- both have the same preamp section (based on an nevevr produced VOX amp from the early 60s)
Here they matched it up with EL84s and called it the Lil' Elvis
And then they matched the same pre-amp up with a 6V6 power section and you have the Tupelo
James Rock
Active member
Re: British vs. American sound?
That is definately true and there are now MESA's and fenders with el84's that don't sound like VOX's thats where the CLASS A (as in actually CLASS A/B but with different hotter biasing.. etc) notation comes in. I think it is all to do with Modelling cos as said above there are even heaps of different Marshall tones mind british (you've got Orange, Hi Watt, Laney, Marshall, Vox)
That is definately true and there are now MESA's and fenders with el84's that don't sound like VOX's thats where the CLASS A (as in actually CLASS A/B but with different hotter biasing.. etc) notation comes in. I think it is all to do with Modelling cos as said above there are even heaps of different Marshall tones mind british (you've got Orange, Hi Watt, Laney, Marshall, Vox)
super rad stuff
Skaforlifeologist
Re: British vs. American sound?
i've always thought of it this way:
british sound is either big fat wooly mids from a marshall or lots of chime and smoothness of a vox. american sound is that huge blackface fender clean or any more modern sounding distortion.
i've always thought of it this way:
british sound is either big fat wooly mids from a marshall or lots of chime and smoothness of a vox. american sound is that huge blackface fender clean or any more modern sounding distortion.
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