Buffer pedals, yay or nay? How do you use them.

[Nightburst]

I want to add a buffer pedal to my board to battle some 'tone suck' that is happening most likely because of my Joyo switcher. I feel that despite using an isolated power supply and good cables I still get a dullness in the sound that can be fixed with a good buffer.
The plan is to use it as a last unit in my signal chain between my pedals and the amp. I know there might be no right or wrong way but I figured I might as well ask before I go into trial and error and save me some headaches.

Right now I use a PXL-PRO-8 looper from Joyo, a klone (buffered) an overdrive pro 820 an MXR 8 ch. EQ and an ISP decimator. I really want to add back my KOT,a reverb and a compressor at a later stage.
I plug straight into the front end, loops are not practical for my live rig.

Will a buffer pedal make a difference?
I'm curious if you guys with pedal boards also use buffers and if you do, how?

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Buffer pedals, yay or nay? How do you use them.

You didn’t mention your cables. That’s another place where you can lose highs.

A good buffer in front of your signal chain never hurts (except for vintage pedals that expect to see a high impedance feeding them).

I’ve even had buffers in some of my guitars.


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[Nightburst]

Re: Buffer pedals, yay or nay? How do you use them.

Yes I agree its the first thing one should look at, which I did already. All my cables are good quality.
I should add one more thing, I use the drives to boost certain parts in the music so they are rarely always on. The EQ is almost always on but is true bypass, the decimator is always on too.

 

[LLL]

Re: Buffer pedals, yay or nay? How do you use them.

The answer is "yes".

Read this awesome and educational article as to the "why", and you'll be more... ahem *experienced* than 75% of the guitarists out there:

Why And When To Use A Guitar Buffer Pedal

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Buffer pedals, yay or nay? How do you use them.

Your klone (if it's really a "clone") is buffered bypass, so you already have a buffer. Where is the klone in your signal chain?

 

[JohnnyBsurfin]

Re: Buffer pedals, yay or nay? How do you use them.

Yes!
http://www.analogman.com/buffer.htm

Some sound great,some icy and cold.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Buffer pedals, yay or nay? How do you use them.

So oftentimes you are running guitar -> bypass looper -> amp with no loops engaged? If so, yes a buffer (any buffer) would make a difference.

 

[Jacew]

Re: Buffer pedals, yay or nay? How do you use them.

Yes I agree its the first thing one should look at, which I did already. All my cables are good quality.
I should add one more thing, I use the drives to boost certain parts in the music so they are rarely always on. The EQ is almost always on but is true bypass, the decimator is always on too.

True bypass is only true bypass when it's off. So your EQ works as a buffer already. Though it might be in the wrong place for that use.

This:

Your klone (if it's really a "clone") is buffered bypass, so you already have a buffer. Where is the klone in your signal chain?

If you're not stacking clone with something else I think you could save a bit by simply moving it first in chain.

 

[Nightburst]

Re: Buffer pedals, yay or nay? How do you use them.

Most of you guys say the buffer should be first in the chain?
What about last in the chain?

Because the Joyo has its own buffer (most likely cheap) I wonder if adding a buffer still benefits, does nothing or makes it worse?

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Buffer pedals, yay or nay? How do you use them.

Most of you guys say the buffer should be first in the chain?
What about last in the chain?

Because the Joyo has its own buffer (most likely cheap) I wonder if adding a buffer still benefits, does nothing or makes it worse?

It depends. Some use a buffer first and another one last. And if you have a bunch of Boss pedals, you have a bunch of buffers (I think most of them are still buffered bypass). Using the buffer first, or early in the chain helps mitigate the attenuation due to cable capacitance. If someone wants some of the rolloff they could used the buffer in the middle or end of the chain. A transparent buffer is not going to sound like it's adding anything back that wasnt already there when the signal gets to it. Some pedals may not play well with buffers ahead of them (often Germanium based pedals/fuzzes and wahs). You have the "klone" so experiment with placement and see what difference it makes. I know nothing about the Joyo so cant help there.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Buffer pedals, yay or nay? How do you use them.

Most of you guys say the buffer should be first in the chain?
What about last in the chain?

Because the Joyo has its own buffer (most likely cheap) I wonder if adding a buffer still benefits, does nothing or makes it worse?

Where is the buffer in the looper and is it always active?

Generally you don’t need one at the end unless you have an odd pedal with a strange output impedance.

 

[Jacew]

Re: Buffer pedals, yay or nay? How do you use them.

Most of you guys say the buffer should be first in the chain?
What about last in the chain?

Because the Joyo has its own buffer (most likely cheap) I wonder if adding a buffer still benefits, does nothing or makes it worse?

You could benefit for having a buffer between Joyo and guitar if that is the culprit, as it would break the interaction between Joyo's input stage and guitar.

Buffered signal is generally less prone to be affected by such than straight output from guitar.

 

[Nightburst]

Re: Buffer pedals, yay or nay? How do you use them.

Just wondering if I put the buffer first in the chain, will it mess with my klone's sound? It has GE diodes doing the clipping.

I don't know where the buffer in the Joyo is, that info is hard to find.

 

[Hank-]

Re: Buffer pedals, yay or nay? How do you use them.

Are you getting tone loss without using the joyo switcher in your signal chain?

If yes then you might need one buffer somewhere in your signal chain where it helps, no solid rules as such.

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Buffer pedals, yay or nay? How do you use them.

Just wondering if I put the buffer first in the chain, will it mess with my klone's sound? It has GE diodes doing the clipping.

I don't know where the buffer in the Joyo is, that info is hard to find.

No, a buffer ahead of the Klone shouldn't mess with it. But again, the klone is a buffer when off (or on). And the buffer in the klon (and therefore a "clone") is highly regarded.

 

[Jacew]

Re: Buffer pedals, yay or nay? How do you use them.

No, a buffer ahead of the Klone shouldn't mess with it. But again, the klone is a buffer when off (or on). And the buffer in the klon (and therefore a "clone") is highly regarded.

I'm not that sure it won't affect the Klone. Then again only way to be sure is to try it.

I concur with just putting the Klone first.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Buffer pedals, yay or nay? How do you use them.

Most of you guys say the buffer should be first in the chain?
What about last in the chain?

Because the Joyo has its own buffer (most likely cheap) I wonder if adding a buffer still benefits, does nothing or makes it worse?

A buffer always goes right after the guitar to isolate the pickups from the cable load.

If you have additional buffers down line that’s not a problem. Effects pedals, even without buffered bypass, generally have high input and low output impedances. That’s what a buffer does, just without the effect.

The input impedance of the buffer also contributes to the tone. A very high input impedance will allow more high end from the guitar. This is highs you don’t normally hear, so for some guitars it can get too bright. Like my Tele. A little lower input impedance can soften the high end emphasis.


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[dave74]

Re: Buffer pedals, yay or nay? How do you use them.

Just a side comment here;

The Boss noise-suppressor, tuner, or even an LS-2 line selector all make great first pedals with the dual purposes of their intended effect and also as good buffers.

 

[Artie]

Re: Buffer pedals, yay or nay? How do you use them.

A buffer always goes right after the guitar to isolate the pickups from the cable load.

This has always been my thinking also. But also, to relieve the passive guitar from any oddball input impedance of a pedal. Wah-wah's are notorious for this. Active pickups are less prone to this problem. I use the good ole SFX-01 first in my signal chain. I modded mine for 1 meg input-Z and unity gain. (A 1 resistor mod.)

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Re: Buffer pedals, yay or nay? How do you use them.

This has always been my thinking also. But also, to relieve the passive guitar from any oddball input impedance of a pedal. Wah-wah's are notorious for this. Active pickups are less prone to this problem. I use the good ole SFX-01 first in my signal chain. I modded mine for 1 meg input-Z and unity gain. (A 1 resistor mod.)

Active pickups have buffers built in. That’s basically all an active pickup is! On an EMG pickup there’s not any actual gain produced by the op amp. It’s unity gain and acting as a differential input buffer which cancels noise and gives a lower impedance output.

Wahs are where the whole true bypass thing started too, since they used cheaper SPDT switches that left the input connected all the time.


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