C-5/59 set in a Dean Hardtail??

[papersoul]

Hi guys!

Any Hardtail guys try this?? C-5/59 set in a dean Hardtail??

I am going to scope out some new HTs this Wednesday over lunch to determine if my next ax will be a hardtail or PRS custom 22. I hear the CU22 is a darker and more modern sounding guitar while the HT can be bright. I am basically looking for something different from my LP but a nice compliment.
The big draw of the CU22 is all of the nice tonal options with the switching.

I am thinking a pickup change may get a hardtail where I want it plus I am hoping I like the neck since I am having a tough time getting into the PRS neck at the moment. I think I am more comfy on flatter radiused necks like an LP. 12" or higher.

I was thinking a C-5 would give more vintage clarity and a more open tone rather than the thick focused tone.

Thanks!

ps

 

[papersoul]

Re: C-5/59 set in a Dean Hardtail??

Jeff?

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: C-5/59 set in a Dean Hardtail??

Hey PS -

I haven't tried the C5/59' combo in my Hardtail yet. I've been on an A2 vintage output kick lately. I've had the PG, Seth, JB and APH II's in the HT. I've been so happy with the APH's that I haven't switched.

I think it could be a good combo depending on the Hardtail. My only experience with C5/59' was in an Epi LP that I had several years ago. It was way too bright, but looking back thats because it wasn't a great guitar, and I was playing through a Hot Rod Deluxe. I think through my Marshall that would be a different beast.

I believe my Hardtail is dark enough to sound good with the C5/59'...perhaps it's time to experiment again.....

 

[papersoul]

Re: C-5/59 set in a Dean Hardtail??

I am going to play some HTs tis week, but I heard from a guy who had a HT and LP and found the HT too bright. I find the C-5 vintage but medium. The Pearly Gates I hear is bright. I really like to stick with stock pickups when possible and I like the new Gibson pickups and like PRS pickups. I love the Dragon IIs in the Custom 22. Have you played one??

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: C-5/59 set in a Dean Hardtail??

Haven't played any of the PRS's plugged in recently, and even when I have not for very long. I found the Dragon's to be somewhat uninspiring...not horrible, but just middle of the road.

Unless I am missing something, there are not a lot of switching options on the 22 that you can't achieve on the HT...at most you would need a couple push/pulls added. As for the HT being bright...that's not my experience at all. Mine has a very thick tone, which is complemented by the maple cap which gives it some nice highs and upper mids. The ebony board adds to the clarity of the highs....but bright is not a word I would ever use to describe my HT. Balanced, meaty, thick, beefy, sweet...all of those in addition to being very versitile.

As for the PG being bright....again not my experience. It was certainly not too bright in my double fat strat, and was not bright enough in my HT. I found that the midrange in the PG conflicted with the natural midrance in my HT and made it slightly muddy, and not articulate enough. The same with the JB....just too many mids for a guitar that was already well balanced. I finally went with a set of APH's....one of the most balanced set of pups Duncan makes. This is a great set for MY HT....the Seth neck was a damn close 2nd. Each guitar will be slightly different, and have it's own voice. A C5/59' may sound great in mine, a PG set in someone elses, a Distortion set in someone elses. Remember, good sound is all in the ears of the beholder. What I like may be to vintage for you, while what your "source" on HT's likes may sound like garbage to my ears.....

For someone to make a blanket statement that HT's are brighter than Les Pauls is very narrow minded. Perhaps the single HT this guy had was brighter than his single Les Paul....but a solid mahogony body with a carved maple cap is not generally something that people will call too bright. The HT has more in common construction wise and sound wise with a LP that it has differences. I find a nice range of LP tones out of my HT.

Remember that opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one. You have to decide for yourself.

 

[Sprinter]

Re: C-5/59 set in a Dean Hardtail??

The best sounding Hardtail I've played had Bartolini pickups in it. No two of my three Hardtail's sound the same. The 11 pounder, thunders like a Les Paul. The 8 pounder is bright. Those two Hardtail's have Duncan pickups, JB in the bridge, and Pearly Gates in the neck position. My prototype Hardtail has DiMarzio Super Distortions in it. It's tone is between the other two. I wish they would have built them all with Bartolini's, but only number 14 has them in it. I should have bought #14 when I had the chance.

Sprinter

 

[papersoul]

Re: C-5/59 set in a Dean Hardtail??

The best sounding Hardtail I've played had Bartolini pickups in it. No two of my three Hardtail's sound the same. The 11 pounder, thunders like a Les Paul. The 8 pounder is bright. Those two Hardtail's have Duncan pickups, JB in the bridge, and Pearly Gates in the neck position. My prototype Hardtail has DiMarzio Super Distortions in it. It's tone is between the other two. I wish they would have built them all with Bartolini's, but only number 14 has them in it. I should have bought #14 when I had the chance.

Sprinter

Sprinter,

Which Bartolini models??

Thanks.

 

[papersoul]

Re: C-5/59 set in a Dean Hardtail??

Thanks Jeff, I know I need to play a bunch before deciding and that is why I find it difficult to take a chance on ebay when I could play a few and pick the one I like best. Our local shop (within a half hour) has the faded denim and the flame top. There is also the green one on ebay that is tempting also. I think I am going to go play those two local HTs before I decide on the PRS vs Dean thing. Some of those photos look darker than the others and yes you are correct that it is the light causing that guitar to look that bright. actually it ia rather a nuetral or darker green.

I would think the APH pickups have a ton of mids?? Alnico II mags??

As far as the necks go. I am thinking I'd lean toward the Dean because I just can't vibe with the 10" radius of the PRS and the I played 4 PRSs yesterday and couldn't get into the neck like I can my Dean Evo or a Les Paul. However, it would be nice to have the harmonic benefit and a little more room to breathe between the frets. However, with the money I could save on a hardtail compared to the PRS.....I could have some left over plus from whatever older guitar I sell.....to afford a long scale (25.5") guitar to satisfy that urge. Hmmmm

The CU22 has the 5 way rotary or it could be made with the three way toggle and push/pull pot. With the rotary you get variations of series/parallel/out of phase tones which is nice to have.

That said, a good friend of mine mentioned this works better at home than on stage where it may not cut through as well. How is the out of phase center postion on the HT compared to the middle slot on a Les Paul? I know it is out of phase, but is it just using two coils at that point?

Finally, I know my LP neck can be muddy compared to the Cu22 neck and a lot of that is the thinner body of the Cu22. Then again, the HT body is thinner than an LP and also does not have the true singlecut design so I am hoping the neck would also be clear. The clearest point on my LP under gain is the bridge postion. The CU22 seems clear even on the neck and great in the middle.

Again, I sometimes want that extra room the 25.5" scale provides but the PRS is only 25" and not more than a Paul so I doubt a big difference in that sense.

Any thougths??

 

[papersoul]

Re: C-5/59 set in a Dean Hardtail??

bump for Jeff.

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: C-5/59 set in a Dean Hardtail??

PS -

Actually the eq curve on the APH II's is very much like a "V" on an eq pedal. Pronounced highs and lows with lower/balanced mids. Not mid heavy at all. The A2 adds to the roundness of the highs, and a slightly spongier feel to the lows.

I really like the 12 degree radius of the HT neck. Nice and comfortable. I also don't mind the 9.5 of my strat either. The HT is easier for chording cleanly and lead play....just a touch more room...but not enough to make that the deciding factor...at least for me.

As for the 5 way rotary on the CU22....I would replace that right away if it were me. Some nice features for playing around with, but I can see those type tones getting lost on stage...especially if the band isn't allowing for them and backing off. On the HT, I never really cared for the middle out of phase selection. As long as the volume is up full on both it sounded ok, but when you started rolling off one volume or the other...that sound didn't do it for me. I wired my like a standard LP when I switched pups.

As for the neck being muddy between your Paul and the CU22 neck...I blame the majority of that on the pickup selection. Seems like the most common complaint I hear on Gibson pups or PRS pups is that they just aren't articulate enough...too muddy, not enough clarity. My opinion given that I practically live here at the SD forum is that you have to change the pickups on your guitars (once you have had it long enough to understand it's true voice) to optimize the tone. SD pickups do that better than any pups on the market...IMO.

If you get your Hardtail...which will have the PG in the neck...and you find that too middy and not clear enough like I did...a 59', Seth, Jazz or APH will clear that up. If the bridge is too midheavy and not articulate enough with the JB...same thing. As much as I love the APH set in my HT, now that I have listened to the recordings I did for my NOS tube shootout, I think it's true voice may lie in a set of A5 magnets. The recordings are not as articulate as the sound in person is.

I really think at this point you're probably analyzing too much....splitting too many hairs between 24.75, 25.00 scale guitars and so on. There is not one perfect guitar...if there was we'd all own it. Play the HT's and find one you like. Take a chance on one on the net if you like them. I have played about 10 in person...and the one I bought on the net played just the same. The consistency and attention to detail are awsome across the board. Each one will have a slightly different voice, but you won't loose your shirt if you don't like the partictular one you get. Just sell it and try again.

Give my clips in the Nos Pre-Amp shootout thread a listen. All done with the hardtail thru my JCM 800. Cleans were done with the neck pickup, dirty sounds with the bridge...APH set. No effects...doesn't sound too shabby.

 

[Sprinter]

Re: C-5/59 set in a Dean Hardtail??

Sprinter,

Which Bartolini models??

Thanks.

I can't remember, which model they were.

Sprinter

 

[papersoul]

Re: C-5/59 set in a Dean Hardtail??

Thanks Jeff! I know I over analyze and I think I'll just find a guitar I like and buy it or maybe I'll take a chance on the Alligator green one on ebay.

I have tried a variety of pups in my LP and other LP necks and none were as clear as the CU22 neck under heavy gain. Then again, the same can be said for a Gibson SG neck....nice and clear in my experience. A lot of that is the guitar design and not really the pickups, especially when changing pups does little good. Keep in mind, I have never used the Jazz.

The Dragon IIs in the CU22 are definitely ultra clear, but I can't necessarily get past the feel of the fretboard radius.

I know what you mean about the toggle vs the 5 way rotary. Something tells me I'd rather have the toggle, but I wish PRS would design it so the volume and tone knob were a coil tap so you could have one pickup tapped and the other full humbucker.

Anyway.....I can guarantee I'd try the Duncan C-5/59 or C-5/Jazz in a hardtail because I imagine the HT is rather mid heavy like a PRS. The C-5 has a similar "V" EQ like your APH IIs according to the Duncan specs and as you mentioned. I only checked the APHs on the site.....as I didn't see mention of the SPH IIs. Maybe I am too tired to remember. If that didn't do it, I'd be back with my trusty Rio Grande BBQ/Texas set. I do like the open and vintage character of the C-5 however. Plus, I agree about taking it back to standard wiring.

So in the 10 HTs you've played...any huge tonal differences? I am assuming you'd need a side by side shoot out to see a difference...which tells me they are consistent.

ONe guitar I know I want is a hamer Mirage to satisfy my long scale urge. Hehe

Thanks bro,

Rich


PS.....I am hoping to play those two HTs this weekend and some more PRS models.

 

[papersoul]

Re: C-5/59 set in a Dean Hardtail??

bump for Jeff......

 

[papersoul]

Re: C-5/59 set in a Dean Hardtail??

bump.

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: C-5/59 set in a Dean Hardtail??

PS

Actually, of all of the Hardtails I've played, I've only played them clean or unpluged except for one...something I learned on this forum a long time ago from the experienced guys. I was looking for guitars that were resonant unplugged, did they have any dead spots or lack of life in the tone. All of the HT's I played were very resonant, and each did have a unique tone in my opinion...but that was a very similar tone. All of the HT's I've played ring out very clear and loud...compared to say some of the Gibson LP's I've played in the same stores.

The tone is certainly brighter IMO than say the LP's I've played side by side...but perhaps bright isn't the right word. Just more resonant, so all of the notes are clearer. Best guitar in the world?...probably not. Best guitar for the $$?....I think there's an argument for that. Is it a great value for what you pay?.....absolutely.

 

[Rainmaker]

Re: C-5/59 set in a Dean Hardtail??

If you're having troubles reaching Jeff, you might try to use the 'Private Messages' function which, if you leave him a message, he will see up the top of the screen which reads "1 unread", etc.

(Btw, why is Sprinter's name in Arial Black?)

 

[papersoul]

Re: C-5/59 set in a Dean Hardtail??

PS

Actually, of all of the Hardtails I've played, I've only played them clean or unpluged except for one...something I learned on this forum a long time ago from the experienced guys. I was looking for guitars that were resonant unplugged, did they have any dead spots or lack of life in the tone. All of the HT's I played were very resonant, and each did have a unique tone in my opinion...but that was a very similar tone. All of the HT's I've played ring out very clear and loud...compared to say some of the Gibson LP's I've played in the same stores.

The tone is certainly brighter IMO than say the LP's I've played side by side...but perhaps bright isn't the right word. Just more resonant, so all of the notes are clearer. Best guitar in the world?...probably not. Best guitar for the $$?....I think there's an argument for that. Is it a great value for what you pay?.....absolutely.

Thanks Jeff, I am going to play those two Hardtails I had mentioned this weekend and also a few PRS McCartys to finally come to a decision. I know I want another LP, but just not at this time. I know what you mean about playing guitars unplugged. That is basically how I judge an instrument at this point. I like to take a few into a quiet corner or room and hear the acoustic quality before I plug it in to an amp.

That is how I found such a big and resonant LP this past year.

 

[Sprinter]

Re: C-5/59 set in a Dean Hardtail??

(Btw, why is Sprinter's name in Arial Black?)

What is Arial Black?


Sprinter