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LooseCannon
Guest
What adventage does a cabinet have over micing the amp to the pa? Better tone?
JacksonMIA
Lemur-buckerologist
Re: Cabinet vs Miced Through PA?
A lot depends on the competency of the sound guys. I've heard the results from some sound guys I'd definitely try to avoid. Others can do a really good job.
A lot depends on the competency of the sound guys. I've heard the results from some sound guys I'd definitely try to avoid. Others can do a really good job.
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LooseCannon
Guest
Re: Cabinet vs Miced Through PA?
I mean having a 1x12 combo or something similliar miced vs using it with an external cabinet.
Zerberus said:
I mean having a 1x12 combo or something similliar miced vs using it with an external cabinet.
MikeS
Bengalsologist
Re: Cabinet vs Miced Through PA?
Generally it's a preference in tone and noise levels. Depends on whether you like the tone of the combo or the 4x12 and how good the house system is. PA equipment is geared for the most accurate sound reproduction, so if it colors the signal, it should hardly be audible.
Generally it's a preference in tone and noise levels. Depends on whether you like the tone of the combo or the 4x12 and how good the house system is. PA equipment is geared for the most accurate sound reproduction, so if it colors the signal, it should hardly be audible.
tone4days
Heel Whacker
Re: Cabinet vs Miced Through PA?
the question still has me scratchig my head as it is worded ... not much better understanding after the 'clarification'
i'll answer from my experience as best i can ...
i played an outdoor gig once where one of my 1x12" closed back boogie cabs (90W celestion) was mic'd (SM57) through a decent, but by no means monsterous, PA ... i stepped out front for a second to check my tone in the mains 'cus i was concerned ... in the outdoor setting, it wasnt doing it for me on stage, even angled up for the sound to hit me in the head ...
i was STUNNED by how ENORMOUS my rig sounded ... it was just jaw dropping ... thick, yet clear ... not a hint of shrillness .. HUGE, but controlled bottom ... i felt like a frikkin rock star and played my a$$ offf that afternoon even though my sound on stage was not that inspiring .. just KNOWING i sounded that good out in the field felt great ...
we played 3 sets, the 3rd one under the lights after it got dark .... 2 encores that night, the crowd wanted more (got the bic lighter salute), and the owner paid us extra ... i swear, if the lead singer wouldve dropped her top, it wouldve been the most perfect day of my life
yeah, micing a small speaker can sound incredible
t4d
the question still has me scratchig my head as it is worded ... not much better understanding after the 'clarification'
i'll answer from my experience as best i can ...
i played an outdoor gig once where one of my 1x12" closed back boogie cabs (90W celestion) was mic'd (SM57) through a decent, but by no means monsterous, PA ... i stepped out front for a second to check my tone in the mains 'cus i was concerned ... in the outdoor setting, it wasnt doing it for me on stage, even angled up for the sound to hit me in the head ...
i was STUNNED by how ENORMOUS my rig sounded ... it was just jaw dropping ... thick, yet clear ... not a hint of shrillness .. HUGE, but controlled bottom ... i felt like a frikkin rock star and played my a$$ offf that afternoon even though my sound on stage was not that inspiring .. just KNOWING i sounded that good out in the field felt great ...
we played 3 sets, the 3rd one under the lights after it got dark .... 2 encores that night, the crowd wanted more (got the bic lighter salute), and the owner paid us extra ... i swear, if the lead singer wouldve dropped her top, it wouldve been the most perfect day of my life
yeah, micing a small speaker can sound incredible
t4d
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LooseCannon
Guest
Re: Cabinet vs Miced Through PA?
Any other opinions?
Any other opinions?
Stevo
Tonus Maximus Pacificas
Re: Cabinet vs Miced Through PA?
If you are playing in a small room, then using the PA does not make sense.
** HOWEVER ** :wave:
Guitar speaker cabinets are not meant to project clear sound over a long distance.
I have played on all kinds of stages in many rooms. It is my solid opinion that you should always keep the stage volume low, and use a PA system to project the sound of your amp. PA speakers are made to project sound over larger areas than a guitar amp.
Band members, especially guitar players and drummers, need to realize that your instrument may sound great from your position, but 20 feet in front of you, the sound is probably muffled and kinda dead sounding.
Furthermore, if you drowned out the vocal monitors, your vocalist might not be able to hear himself or herself. When a vocalist can't hear the monitors, they are likely to sing off key and thrash their voices after a short time. I speak from personal experience. My band hates me when I can't hear my monitor. When it happens, I hate them too :laugh2:
JacksonMIA makes a good point about the sound guys. You are at their mercy. My advice is to be nice to them and work as a team. Get a good sound check with listeners in the audience. That's VERY IMPORTANT!
If you are playing in a small room, then using the PA does not make sense.
** HOWEVER ** :wave:
Guitar speaker cabinets are not meant to project clear sound over a long distance.
I have played on all kinds of stages in many rooms. It is my solid opinion that you should always keep the stage volume low, and use a PA system to project the sound of your amp. PA speakers are made to project sound over larger areas than a guitar amp.
Band members, especially guitar players and drummers, need to realize that your instrument may sound great from your position, but 20 feet in front of you, the sound is probably muffled and kinda dead sounding.
Furthermore, if you drowned out the vocal monitors, your vocalist might not be able to hear himself or herself. When a vocalist can't hear the monitors, they are likely to sing off key and thrash their voices after a short time. I speak from personal experience. My band hates me when I can't hear my monitor. When it happens, I hate them too :laugh2:
JacksonMIA makes a good point about the sound guys. You are at their mercy. My advice is to be nice to them and work as a team. Get a good sound check with listeners in the audience. That's VERY IMPORTANT!
marvar
New member
Re: Cabinet vs Miced Through PA?
The whole idea behind a sound reinforcement system is to create a balanced overall sound that the audience can enjoy. Where all the instruments are at a balanced level, with the vocals on top of the mix.
Many times,(speaking as a seasoned sound man) I have had to go to the guitar players in bands who were blasting, and give my little speech that if they want to be in the house mix, they will have to turn down- otherwise, I will raise all the levels of the other inputs, and they will be lost in the mix- I usually have around 10,000 watts or more, and could easily overcome their volume ,remember, the audience usually isnt' there to hear only the guitar player- they want to be entertained by the whole band. When I mix, I always make sure that vocals are on top of everything else.
As far as a combo or full stack, it really makes no difference to the sound man, as long as the levels are managable. Just get your amp loud enough to hear yourself on stage, and let the PA do the work, that's what it was made for. (But I can't get my tone at a low volume!- that is pure BS, as long as your amp has a master volume the pa can make it sound as big as life)
Some of the greatest recordings in rock history where recorded with a small, 10-20 watt amp, with 1x12 or 1x10!
The whole idea behind a sound reinforcement system is to create a balanced overall sound that the audience can enjoy. Where all the instruments are at a balanced level, with the vocals on top of the mix.
Many times,(speaking as a seasoned sound man) I have had to go to the guitar players in bands who were blasting, and give my little speech that if they want to be in the house mix, they will have to turn down- otherwise, I will raise all the levels of the other inputs, and they will be lost in the mix- I usually have around 10,000 watts or more, and could easily overcome their volume ,remember, the audience usually isnt' there to hear only the guitar player- they want to be entertained by the whole band. When I mix, I always make sure that vocals are on top of everything else.
As far as a combo or full stack, it really makes no difference to the sound man, as long as the levels are managable. Just get your amp loud enough to hear yourself on stage, and let the PA do the work, that's what it was made for. (But I can't get my tone at a low volume!- that is pure BS, as long as your amp has a master volume the pa can make it sound as big as life)
Some of the greatest recordings in rock history where recorded with a small, 10-20 watt amp, with 1x12 or 1x10!
CapoFirstFret
New member
Re: Cabinet vs Miced Through PA?
I run sound for a living, and while the system I work with isn't overly huge (roughly 4,500 (mains/subs/4 monitor mixes) for a club that holds about 300 people max, I have been to a lot of shows. One of the shows I went to was at the Murphy Center on the campus of Middle Tennessee State University to see the Spin Doctors. I was on the floor, front and slightly to the right (which put me in front of the guitar player). The Spin Doctors are an amazing band, but I wouldn't have known it from that night. Their guitar player used a Marshall half stack (100 watts), CRANKED! On the floor you couldn't hear ANYTHING but his guitar because there was no mic on it. He simply cranked his amp as loud as he could to keep up with the PA. The singer became, effectively, a gagged ventriloquist and the bass player may as well have not been there. I occassionally heard the snare drum pop out of the mix, but rarely. I went to the very back row for a few minutes (I was able to get back to the front)...and it sounded fine back there, but when you got any closer than the very back row, it just got awful. My lesson learned? Buy an attenuator and mic the freakin amp! It'll sound a hell of a lot better in the long run.
I run sound for a living, and while the system I work with isn't overly huge (roughly 4,500 (mains/subs/4 monitor mixes) for a club that holds about 300 people max, I have been to a lot of shows. One of the shows I went to was at the Murphy Center on the campus of Middle Tennessee State University to see the Spin Doctors. I was on the floor, front and slightly to the right (which put me in front of the guitar player). The Spin Doctors are an amazing band, but I wouldn't have known it from that night. Their guitar player used a Marshall half stack (100 watts), CRANKED! On the floor you couldn't hear ANYTHING but his guitar because there was no mic on it. He simply cranked his amp as loud as he could to keep up with the PA. The singer became, effectively, a gagged ventriloquist and the bass player may as well have not been there. I occassionally heard the snare drum pop out of the mix, but rarely. I went to the very back row for a few minutes (I was able to get back to the front)...and it sounded fine back there, but when you got any closer than the very back row, it just got awful. My lesson learned? Buy an attenuator and mic the freakin amp! It'll sound a hell of a lot better in the long run.
Gdntoneguitars
New member
Re: Cabinet vs Miced Through PA?
I agree with most of those comments. For the most part, those 100 watt amps were made popular because a lot of venues didn't have house PA's, so bands like Skynyrd just cranked there amps so you could at least hear 'em.
I think what most people are trying to say is, find your tone, and make it blend with the rest of the band. If your question is more 'will my tone sound better through my amp speakers or the PA speakers?', then I'd say you'd probably like it better through your amps speakers alone, but then again, PA systems these days are made to exactly reproduce those sounds, as stated above.
I agree with most of those comments. For the most part, those 100 watt amps were made popular because a lot of venues didn't have house PA's, so bands like Skynyrd just cranked there amps so you could at least hear 'em.
I think what most people are trying to say is, find your tone, and make it blend with the rest of the band. If your question is more 'will my tone sound better through my amp speakers or the PA speakers?', then I'd say you'd probably like it better through your amps speakers alone, but then again, PA systems these days are made to exactly reproduce those sounds, as stated above.
