Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

[Lewguitar]

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

so are you saying you bought another marshall just to have something that said 'marshall'?

I guess I'm saying that my Matchless Chieftan out Marshalled my Marshalls (it has a great master volume control that WORKS and has real spring reverb that sounds great and it's cathode biased (some call it Class A) which lets me squeeze out notes at a reasonable volume like toothpaste from a tube) so I sold my Marshalls, but I miss the tone of the JCM800's I sold when I got the Matchless. So I like having that genuine Marshall tone as part of my tonal palette.

And "yes"...I do like owning a great amp that says "Marshall" on the front. lol!

I don't see myself as being a collector because I play everything I own...but I guess I am a collector to some degree and do like owning a real Marshall.

Lew

 

[The Golden Boy]

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Lew, didn't you relatively recently sell an old metal panel Marshall?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Lew, didn't you relatively recently sell an old metal panel Marshall?

Yes. My '70 50 watt model 1987 head. That was the last of my three original Marshalls that I sold after getting the Chieftan.

I also had two more that I sold: an '82 50 watt 2 x 12 combo and an '86 50 watt 2 x 12 combo amp.

As it turned out, I missed the '82 combo amp the most and bought another identical '82 50 watt, but the 1 x 12 version, to replace it.

Kinda silly I guess, but I just missed having a real Marshall that sounds exactly like a real Marshall.

I've owned lots of Marshalls over the years. Had a couple of 50 watt plexis and a couple of 100 watt plexis in the early 70's.

Lew

 

[75lespaul]

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

so are you saying you bought another marshall just to have something that said 'marshall'?

I don't know if he's saying it, but I am. Consider my age as well before you bash me. I'm 44. When I was knee high to a pimp, Marshall was THE rock amp. Almost everyone used Marshalls. I'm brainwashed and it's the way a lot of people are. For me, it's the look with that awesome logo. When you had a Marshall, you had GEAR man. I guess I'm trying to say that along with the sound, it's a status symbol of my generation for rock. Now don't get me wrong here--it's got to be a good sounding Marshall and not a dog but yeah, when it's a real Marshall (from 66 thru 80 or so for me) it feels like home. It is something I've tried to overcome but just couldn't. I could have fifty Splawns, Boogies, Laneys, Line 6s, Oranges, whatever but I need at least one Marshall like a vampire needs blood.

 

[ErikH]

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

I don't know if he's saying it, but I am. Consider my age as well before you bash me. I'm 44. When I was knee high to a pimp, Marshall was THE rock amp. Almost everyone used Marshalls. I'm brainwashed and it's the way a lot of people are. For me, it's the look with that awesome logo. When you had a Marshall, you had GEAR man. I guess I'm trying to say that along with the sound, it's a status symbol of my generation for rock. Now don't get me wrong here--it's got to be a good sounding Marshall and not a dog but yeah, when it's a real Marshall (from 66 thru 80 or so for me) it feels like home. It is something I've tried to overcome but just couldn't. I could have fifty Splawns, Boogies, Laneys, Line 6s, Oranges, whatever but I need at least one Marshall like a vampire needs blood.

Couldn't have said it any better myself. I don't care how many clones there, ain't nothin' like the real thing. I miss playing through mine but until I can afford to put a new power tranny in it, I just have to let it sit. Mine is no 60's Plexi or 70's JMP, but dang it's one that never gets enough respect....the JCM 900 MkIII series from 1990-1992. That's my sound. I'm happily making due with a modelling amp only because I can get real close to that same sound, not quite there, but darn close.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

I don't know if he's saying it, but I am. Consider my age as well before you bash me. I'm 44. When I was knee high to a pimp, Marshall was THE rock amp. Almost everyone used Marshalls. I'm brainwashed and it's the way a lot of people are. For me, it's the look with that awesome logo. When you had a Marshall, you had GEAR man. I guess I'm trying to say that along with the sound, it's a status symbol of my generation for rock. Now don't get me wrong here--it's got to be a good sounding Marshall and not a dog but yeah, when it's a real Marshall (from 66 thru 80 or so for me) it feels like home. It is something I've tried to overcome but just couldn't. I could have fifty Splawns, Boogies, Laneys, Line 6s, Oranges, whatever but I need at least one Marshall like a vampire needs blood.

Yep...I know the feeling. Owning a real Marshall, especially a vintage Marshall, is like owning a real "old school" Harley Davidson. Except the Marshall will always "start"! lol!

Lew

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Personally, I wouldn't look at buying a marshall right now if I was looking for that sound. I'd go Metro, Germino, Reinhardt, or similar. they just take a lot more time and care to get that classic sound than Marshall do these days, unless you're buying some super-overpriced limited edition thing.

To put it another way, I recently heard a stock plexi reissue and one that had a Metro board and a full mercury transformer/choke upgrade. The 'upgrade' head sounded better and more 'classic' to my ears.

 

[jerryjg]

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

This is a great thread, Heres waht I am taking way from this
1)A stock Vintage marshall has the mojo and the look and the sound is classic.
2)Some few amps can nail that Marsahll sound, and get even a wider range of usable tones(like the modified TS-808 example)
3)The new marshalls arent exact in the replication of vintage marshall tone, and for all the modern versatility they provide, they get close enough that they are a great choice for a working musician.
4) some botique amps will have a Marshalesque tone range, yet on toher setings will flat out leave a Marshall behind in other aspects.
Does that about sum it up?

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

This is a great thread, Heres waht I am taking way from this
1)A stock Vintage marshall has the mojo and the look and the sound is classic.
2)Some few amps can nail that Marsahll sound, and get even a wider range of usable tones(like the modified TS-808 example)
3)The new marshalls arent exact in the replication of vintage marshall tone, and for all the modern versatility they provide, they get close enough that they are a great choice for a working musician.
4) some botique amps will have a Marshalesque tone range, yet on toher setings will flat out leave a Marshall behind in other aspects.
Does that about sum it up?

well, some of the marshall-inspired boutique amps are incredibly faithful replicas of old Marshalls, and others push the boundaries, either a little or a lot.

 

[theodie]

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Nah, my early 90's 2100 MKIII is the bomb. I had a 2555SL (Slash signature, same as Jubilee) at the same time, it could not touch the 2100 for tone either. Sorry, nothing is going to beat it.

 

[theodie]

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

I own a Marshall 900. Nice amp, but its a modern rendition of a Marshall. When I think of Marshalls I think of Plexi tones. No one makes a Plexi or a clone quite like them. There is something really unique about the real plexis. Each one I have played has the right sound, but at the same time has something a little unique as well. Plexis or this type of amp are not very versatile....... they have to be cranked up to earth shattering volumes before the sound comes together. In most situations of live performance this is just not possible. Most clubs would throw you out if you attempt to play that loud. For this reason Master volumes are a more effective way to go. You can get a good Marshall sound at a reasonable volume.

A few months back I had my heart set on the VM, and then when I played threw one I was not impressed to the point to drop down 2500$ for it. It was OK, but not at all what I thought it would be. I too felt something was missing........ so my search continued.............. I wound up buying a Komet 60........ this along with my Bogner Shiva....... Search over!

Which 900 do you have? They vary greatly in tone depending on which one you have though, they all get lumped into the same catagorey by those that dont know better. :friday:

 

[ModestCargo]

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

I agree with those of you that didn't like the vintage modern amps.. what a load of crap that hype was. I really don't like today's Marshall amps at all - although the DSLs aren't horrible.

 

[J Moose]

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Lots of excellent views & thoughts here.

I kinda want to comment on all of 'em but this one...

Splawn, Voodoo, Metro, Roccaforte... these amps are based on, or cloned from the different models of "better sounding" Marshalls. So I think they do sound better than the "not so good" sounding Marshalls for sure. I guess it depends on what your ears hear as a "good" Marshall tone.

The Marshall tone and timbre is so subjective to so many factors. Especially if you're going for different era Marshall tones such as something more along the lines of AC/DC, or 80's buttrock, or Slayer.

That's great... really hits a point or three. Possibly even the main one...

What IS a "good" Marshall?

We've all played amps that are amazing and others, even with the same model number that are totally lame. The latter seems to be the case more with "old" gear then the newer bits which seem to be fairly consistent from box to box. Old amp issues are usually due to maintenance or lack thereof... hack repairs, mods or stock, quality of the mods & other things. Audio gear isn't so different... you can put up two identical Pultec tube EQ's from the 60s or old limiters and they could sound radically different... or entirely identical.

I think it's pretty easy to state though that the older amps are somewhat fickle & cranky beasts that can act up & sputter out. You don't see many cats touring with amps from '71...

As Whammy stated there are a few different types of "Marshall" tone...

And while they're all kinda different, Jimi & Jimmy; AC/DC to Slayer & Slash... To my ear they all have similar roots. A kind of 'knock' or timbre that's readily identifiable as "Marshall" and not Boogie or a dimed out Tweed. Even the DSL and production reissue heads have more in common with each other then they do with say, a Rectumfryer or Orange.

How much of it comes down to tubes & quality of the tubes?

How much of is taste?

I'd rather have a Wizard or Roccaforte then some beat to pulp '71...

Some of the new production line Marshall's have been highly disappointing... like the TSL. I played one of those next to my Rivera Rake when I bought that head & it wasn't even close. The Rivera really out-Marshalled that Marshall and had a great clean channel to boot.

That Vintage Modern is sticking in my head... I still feel underwhelmed by it and I've been wailing on my 800 all day...

 

[Skarekrough]

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Nothing can out-brand the original brand. Nothing can do "Marshall" better than the Marshall they the other guys based it on.

Now, some of those guys can blow Marshall/Fender/Gibson/Whatever out of the water tone wise. And I totally love the clones and stuff out there for them. But it can't truly do better than the one it was based on.

Well, yes and no.

At one point in time the Marshall was based on the Bassman and it could be argued that it was more Bassman than the Bassman.

But I think what they're talking about is something that comprehends what is the specific thing that folks are buying those amps for and making them do that.

Splawn is good example of this. They're hot-rodded Marshalls, that's how they got their start and that's all they're really selling.

If you look at G&L, they're another example. They're the next evolutionary step with the ASAT's. Pick one up and it's more Tele than a Tele at times.

Marshall's a great name, but their reputation precedes them. One of my favorite lines was "Everyone should make the mistake of owning a Marshall once just so that they know to never do it again."

Now that I'm older and I have the luxury of being able to own a few amps I might consider owning one if the right one came along for the right price. Certainly it wouldn't be PCB as I'm more of a vintage guy. But I might consider owning one. Of course, it wouldn't ever be my ONLY amp.

 

[BloodRose]

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Ive been eyeing that zakk wylde mini stack...........

 

[ksmith63]

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

I don't know if he's saying it, but I am. Consider my age as well before you bash me. I'm 44. When I was knee high to a pimp, Marshall was THE rock amp. Almost everyone used Marshalls. I'm brainwashed and it's the way a lot of people are. For me, it's the look with that awesome logo. When you had a Marshall, you had GEAR man. I guess I'm trying to say that along with the sound, it's a status symbol of my generation for rock. Now don't get me wrong here--it's got to be a good sounding Marshall and not a dog but yeah, when it's a real Marshall (from 66 thru 80 or so for me) it feels like home. It is something I've tried to overcome but just couldn't. I could have fifty Splawns, Boogies, Laneys, Line 6s, Oranges, whatever but I need at least one Marshall like a vampire needs blood.

well i wasnt trying to bash lew (sorry if thats how it came across) but in his first post it sounded like the matchless did everything much better than his marshalls ever did. i guess the nostalgia of living during that time period (and a love for everything marshall) is something i'll never know.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Now I understand how ridiculous my Gibson Les Paul R9 GAS is. Or conversely, I understand why some of you are Marshall to the death.

 

[Animal]

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

well i wasnt trying to bash lew (sorry if thats how it came across) but in his first post it sounded like the matchless did everything much better than his marshalls ever did. i guess the nostalgia of living during that time period (and a love for everything marshall) is something i'll never know.

I think what Lew is getting at is some amps do such a refined Marshall sound, that they go beyond being a Marshall in a sense that a Marshall is like a dog, rough around the edges, but you've got to love them for their character. If that makes any sense.

 

[Pastor of Muppets]

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

It's also perception though - if you want to sound like Jimmy Page then stick an LP through a Marshall and you will sound more like Jimmy Page cos, consciously or subconciously, you will feel better about your playing...you'll have the vibe going on. Sports performance is so dependent on mentality, and music is too - with an LP and a Marshall stack you'll feel badass and start to play more badass cos you've got your Jimmy Page-gameface on.

Or something.

 

[J Moose]

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Re: Can a Marshall really be "out-Marshalled"? I played some "new" ones today...

Marshall's a great name, but their reputation precedes them. One of my favorite lines was "Everyone should make the mistake of owning a Marshall once just so that they know to never do it again."

One of my friends, the guy who bought the Major I talked about in the other thread... He bought a JCM900 2-channel half-stack when he was 16 or so as his first "real" amp. The 900 series was pretty new, just released. He didn't even try it at the store, figured it was an all tube Marshall... "How could I go wrong?"

Within a week he was using the same little Boss pedal he had been using with his solid state Fender combo... hahaha

He's owned a few other Marshalls including that modded Major, might even still have a DSL 50... but his main amp now is a CAE Overdrive 100.