Can an amp be on without a speaker or guitar connected?

[GreatOz]

Good day,

I know this question partially depends on the amp, but can a tube amp be on, standby on too, without a speaker cabinet connected provided that no guitar signal is being sent to it?

I'm thinking of getting a Mesa Boogie Fillmore 25 amp head to use for Sunday services. My current amp can do this, although I do not use it this fashion.

Long story, I am putting the head behind the stage and getting separate cables to speed up the pedalboard teardown, which means that I cannot turn off the amp or put it on standby, which is not a problem for my current amp.

However, I do not know if the Mesa can be "used" in this fashion. Since I would also use it with an attenuator, the Tone King Ironman II Mini specifically, I would have to disconnect it, making the amp disconnected from a cabinet. Also at this point, the guitar would be disconnected too, so the amp would not be getting any signal to it either. Is the 1 minute or so of time being disconnected from the speaker cabinet while I go turn off the amp behind the stage without any signal enough time to damage the amp or can the amp be in this state indefinitely without any damage?

Alternatively, I could have a power strip with an on/off switch on the stage and hook up the amp to that strip; it's short enough so that distance is not an issue.
Would turning off the amp's power without turning the actual amp switch off damage it if I chose to go this route?

If it is logistically unfeasible to do this, then I'll just skip it.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
GreatOz

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: Can an amp be on without a speaker or guitar connected?

If you run a tube amp without a speaker connected to it, you'll hurt it and eventually destroy it. I wouldn't risk it if I were you.

 

[Demanic]

Re: Can an amp be on without a speaker or guitar connected?

Is that attenuator also a load box?

 

[GreatOz]

Re: Can an amp be on without a speaker or guitar connected?

It doesn't matter because it would have to be disconnected before I turn the amp off. I'm thinking the answer to my question is "not a good idea/it's actually bad" anyway, just wanted to confirm with the more experienced players first.

Good thing I haven't ordered any of this junk yet lol

 

[SlyFoxx]

Re: Can an amp be on without a speaker or guitar connected?

I don't see a problem if you can kill the power to the amp from the stage before you tear down. You might get the normal "pop" sound as it powers off, get with your sound guy and have him mute that channel at the mixer so the PA and the rest of the congregation don't have to suffer it.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Can an amp be on without a speaker or guitar connected?

I think it is more like the wrong set of gear for the job. Just get something you can plug in direct, and leave the great amp at home.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Can an amp be on without a speaker or guitar connected?

I think it is more like the wrong set of gear for the job. Just get something you can plug in direct, and leave the great amp at home.

This will be anathema to most of the tube gurus, however this is one of the applications where I often recommend modeling.

Of course all guitarists love the big fat tube sound and modeling is often considered second-rate.. however with high-quality modeling(including Kemper and fractal here even though some people argue that they're not modeling) it's pretty much impossible to tell the difference between tubes and modeling with in the mix.

You can prove this pretty easily. Explain what you trying to do to your front of house engineer before your next practice, meet an hour before practice and bring your tube amp and a model that is as close as you can create.

Ask him to record both.. If he is a competent engineer, the odds are high that neither of you will not be able to tell the difference after he messes with EQ compression effects etc.

If you really want to wrap this one up, do the same thing but use a splitter to feed both amps simultaneously. Again, it will be extremely unusual if you can tell the difference in a full mix.

So far I've addressed the fallacy that models aren't as good as live tubes. If you can get past that argument the rest is easy.

Contemporary worship requires an incredibly wide range of tones and timbres. Especially when trying to recreate the sound of the original recording... Much much much easier to do in modeling land.

Same thing with Ctrl. Contemporary worship has gotten into humongously big pedal boards and amp enclosures, but when you go back to how does it sound in the mix, the plethora of compressors, choreses, amp models etc are far more useful when recreating the music the people already know.

And set up, care and feeding and all of the challenges of tubes and isolation cabinets and not being able to grab the volume knob when somebody bumped it the wrong way.... Modeling just kills tubes in in most worship environments where you play a lot but don't have dedicated technicians.

And if you made it this far I want to be clear i am a tube snob. When I have the time and support to use tubes, I usually do. However with contemporary worship, modeling is usually the way to go.

What's funny is I've had a few students go through this exercise and report that modeling was the far better solution however the rest of the musicians used tubes and pedalboards and they felt like they would be perceived as lesser musicians if they went down the modeling path.

If your goal is to make good recordings and meet your audiences expectations,
It's hard to beat modeling in most contemporary worship environments... however peer pressure is always a challenge.

Sorry if I took us down the wrong rabbit hole... however I wish more people would think about performance, production and the final product...

Either way would love to hear what ends up working for you.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

 

[GreatOz]

Re: Can an amp be on without a speaker or guitar connected?

I actually used to use a modeller, wanted something more real lol.

Since I have switched to the amp, the other bandmates and the some of the audience have both stated that the amp sounds much better than the modeller I used to use, so there's that. Maybe I don't know how to use the modeller? Idk

 

[AlexR]

Re: Can an amp be on without a speaker or guitar connected?

^ Don't be thinking that some of the modellers around aren't 'real'. I think Metallica's whole live rig is Axe Fx.

Sampling has come a long way.......but even if it hadn't, who is to tell you that your method of getting the tone you like and want isn't 'real'.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Can an amp be on without a speaker or guitar connected?

I don't even understand the situation. It's so confusing trying to figure out why you are trying to use this setup.

Why don't you just keep the amp next to you? I don't see the benefit in having it remotely located. It seems to make everything harder, as well as putting the amp's controls out of reach.

Additionally, you're talking a pretty low powered amp with a gain/master setup. An attenuator doesn't make much sense for that; it's pretty much the opposite of what they're meant for (high powered amps and/or amps that might only have a single volume control). I have played the entire Fillmore line, and the 25 sounds really good even at low volume.

Sounds like a possible case of gear/tech obsession creating problems that don't need to exist. Just put all your stuff right next to you, and eliminate the chaff – especially the attenuator, which just doesn't make sense with that amp.

 

[devastone]

Re: Can an amp be on without a speaker or guitar connected?

People are going to scream and call me names, but yes, if there is no signal going into the amp, it is safe to be on without a load. What fries tubes and output trannies is if the amp is trying to amplify a signal and there is no place for it to go, like closing your mouth and holding your nose, then trying to blow out until your ears or eyeballs pop, something has to give. But, if you don't blow, there isn't any pressure. It's how the switchers that allow you to run multiple heads through one cabinet work, they make sure to remove the input signal before disconnecting the output.

And before anyone tells me I don't know what I'm talking about, please research it. But, I will agree that it is safest to keep a load connected.

 

[GreatOz]

Re: Can an amp be on without a speaker or guitar connected?

Thank you for all the knowledgeable replies.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Can an amp be on without a speaker or guitar connected?

People are going to scream and call me names, but yes, if there is no signal going into the amp, it is safe to be on without a load. What fries tubes and output trannies is if the amp is trying to amplify a signal and there is no place for it to go, like closing your mouth and holding your nose, then trying to blow out until your ears or eyeballs pop, something has to give. But, if you don't blow, there isn't any pressure. It's how the switchers that allow you to run multiple heads through one cabinet work, they make sure to remove the input signal before disconnecting the output.

And before anyone tells me I don't know what I'm talking about, please research it. But, I will agree that it is safest to keep a load connected.

On the Mesa Boogie SimulClass 2:90 it says if you aren’t using one of the channels, turn the volume to 0 and presence to full. Then again, Mesa is built to a different standard than Bugera.

 

[devastone]

Re: Can an amp be on without a speaker or guitar connected?

Then again, Mesa is built to a different standard than Bugera.

This is a very true statment! :scratchch