Can one preamp tube make a difference?

IanBallard

IanBallard

New member
Right now I'm super broke but I wanted to see if putting a Tung-Sol in the V1 slot would make a significant difference in tone, or should I just wait till I can afford the whole overhaul (all new preamps, new power tubes and speakers). This amp (Crate VC6210 combo) still sounds decent and works OK but the tubes are original (as far as I know) and it's been a workhorse for years. It's starting to sound a bit flat and has lost its "3D complexity" it once had. I just can't afford to do the whole shebang right now.
 
Re: Can one preamp tube make a difference?

It is more likely the power tubes that are tired, but if you have a Tung-Sol AX7......put it in and see what you think/hear.
No harm at all.
Best
 
Re: Can one preamp tube make a difference?

Yeah, I 'spose it couldn't hurt. If anything, it'll spice up the treble a bit. I have a fresh set of EH-EL34's and am thinking the Weber 30w Blue Pups might do the trick. The stock speakers, also showing signs of wear and age are 50w but I'd like a touch more sensitivity and I've heard the Weber 10's are as good as anything out there.
 
Re: Can one preamp tube make a difference?

How old is it? If money is tight, I'd start with some power tubes. Eyeball the big electrolytic caps. Look at the ends and if you see any bubbling, they're going bad. If the amp is 10 years old and you've been playing the snot out of it, replace the big caps with the tubes. It's like changing the oil in your car. You just have to do it every so often.

Then, the speakers, but get them rated high enough. If I remember, this is a 60watt amp.
 
Re: Can one preamp tube make a difference?

Scott_F said:
How old is it? If money is tight, I'd start with some power tubes. Eyeball the big electrolytic caps. Look at the ends and if you see any bubbling, they're going bad. If the amp is 10 years old and you've been playing the snot out of it, replace the big caps with the tubes. It's like changing the oil in your car. You just have to do it every so often.

Then, the speakers, but get them rated high enough. If I remember, this is a 60watt amp.
Click to expand...

It was designed around being able to use either 6L6GC's or EL34. It has the latter in it now. I got it a couple years ago from a friend who's had it for years and he used it in a loud metal band we were in together (with me on drums) and he traded it for an old Ampeg SVT head. AFAIK, he never serviced it, but there were two new EL34's in the back compartment which I'll probably use, unless I can find somebody who wants to trade a set of JJ6CA7's ( ;) ). I just can't afford the servicing right now and I don't know how to bias tubes or swap caps at all.

My understanding is EL34's actually can produce more than 25w even before clipping, so it's probably 60watts even with those tubes in it. The caps probably do need replaced and there is an occasional loud popping when switching channels. The dirty channel is very much like a JCM800 or 1987 (the front panel and knobs are Marshall type and it sounds very "Brown") and LOVE the clean channel too... very Fender-like. It's a great little amp, I just need funds to get it properly serviced. Are Webers a good choice you think?
 
Re: Can one preamp tube make a difference?

just cause a tube could put out 30w doesnt mean it will, lots of other things come into play.

preamp tubes really dont wear out. power tubes and phase inverter do
 
Re: Can one preamp tube make a difference?

jeremy said:
just cause a tube could put out 30w doesnt mean it will, lots of other things come into play.

preamp tubes really dont wear out. power tubes and phase inverter do
Click to expand...

Right, but it's rated at 60w, so it's likely designed to do so, even with EL34's.

I found out a few interesting tid-bits about EL34's in this article, wherein if the amp circuit is capable, they can put out more than rated. Since the lead channel is based around a 1987 Marshall circuit (I presume), it shouldn't be that hard to get going with available specs. Crate has thrown the online manual down the blackhole or obscurity (they provide a link to the .pdf, but it takes you to a product page), so I don't even have a good diagram available. The guys at my local shop act like it's no sweat, so I'm not worried about the service, I just can't afford it right now.
 
Re: Can one preamp tube make a difference?

everything makes a difference, but its new power tubes that make the biggest difference
 
Re: Can one preamp tube make a difference?

gibson175 said:
everything makes a difference, but its new power tubes that make the biggest difference
Click to expand...

+1

BTW is my opinion that a new v1 will make some difference depending on the layout of the pre amp, for instance yesterday I got an Egnater Tweaker, this thing is got a tube for PI, one for the Loop and v1 is the only real preamp tube, so in that particular case... V1 makes a lot more difference than say a PV 6505+ with I think 7 gain stages.
 
Re: Can one preamp tube make a difference?

To answer your other question, yes Weber speakers are pretty darn slick. They've come out with a new "Legacy" design of 10's and 12's. From what I can tell, the 12's are based on Vintage 30's. Supposed to be what Ted was working on before he passed away. (God bless his soul, he was a great guy). I've never ordered a Weber I didn't like. I use their speakers in all my Fender-based amps. I want to try a Legacy at some point when the opportunity arises.

The really cool thing is you can actually call them and tell them what your'e after, your goal, tone-wise and they'll help steer you to the right speaker model.
 
Re: Can one preamp tube make a difference?

From Weber's site, for what it's worth....



"Power level: always get more power handling than your amp puts out. Amps can generate more power than their 'ratings' indicate. No speaker is indestructible, so bear that in mind before cranking your Marshall amp and wondering why your speakers are blown. "
 
Re: Can one preamp tube make a difference?

I think you'll get more sparkle out of new tubes, and you might give 6L6s a shot. As much as I like Marshall amps, I've never been a big fan of their bottom end, it seems a trifle soggy to me. 6L6s are a trifle tighter to my ears. Just my two cents.
 
Re: Can one preamp tube make a difference?

IanBallard said:
Right, but it's rated at 60w, so it's likely designed to do so, even with EL34's.

I found out a few interesting tid-bits about EL34's in this article, wherein if the amp circuit is capable, they can put out more than rated. Since the lead channel is based around a 1987 Marshall circuit (I presume), it shouldn't be that hard to get going with available specs. Crate has thrown the online manual down the blackhole or obscurity (they provide a link to the .pdf, but it takes you to a product page), so I don't even have a good diagram available. The guys at my local shop act like it's no sweat, so I'm not worried about the service, I just can't afford it right now.
Click to expand...

Here is the manual: http://www.crateamps.com/pdf/manuals/VC611262106212.pdf

Bias test point and ground on your amp are external so it is the easiest amp there is to bias. Mine is set at 42 mV using GT E34Ls which are relabled JJ E34L tubes. Here is a quick video that I used when settin up my amp since it has a simular test point: http://www.eurotubes.com/euro-Marshall-DSLTSLV.htm
 
Re: Can one preamp tube make a difference?

zzmoore said:
It is more likely the power tubes that are tired, but if you have a Tung-Sol AX7......put it in and see what you think/hear.
No harm at all.
Best
Click to expand...

That and the tube in the PI spot.

Tung-Sol 12ax7's in V1 are nice btw. More emphasis on bass and highs with a nice warm, sparkly clean sound. They do tend to be noisier than other tubes in my experience though. You might want to get one that is specifically selected for low noise and microphonics.
 
Re: Can one preamp tube make a difference?

I don't know the difference between a gold jj and a regular jj but there is no comparison between a grade c preamp tube and a regular JJ or tung-sol...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top