Can someone explain this whole TAD tube thing?

[King IzzO)))]

Re: Can someone explain this whole TAD tube thing?

Ruby: http://www.magicparts.com/new/default.htm

Mesa: http://www.watfordvalves.com/products.asp?id=27

TAD: http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_60_61&products_id=1101

LPB, thanks for that info, I'm gonna go update my charts.

 

[J Moose]

Re: Can someone explain this whole TAD tube thing?

Uh, Teles and RFT were not relabeled anything. Sometimes RFT were labeled as Siemens, and oddly, Telefunken. Sometimes Teles were labeled with various US names, but they were not made by other companies.

Telefunken never made anything themselves. They were and still are one of the European kings of re-branding products. Even today they make TV's and cameras... http://www.telefunken.com/

I've seen old toasters from the '40s with Telefunken logos too...

Back in WWI & WWII days Telefunken was the German radio & early TV company... they had a lot of contracts with the gov't to fulfill orders for consumer home radios, to broadcast gear to short-wave radios for the military and everything in between.

Some may be familiar with the U47 and 251 tube mics... occasionally we'll see 47's with Telefunken badges, not Neumann badges which would mean the mic was purchased through East Europe channels, but is otherwise the exact same thing as the Neumann.

The 251 was developed when Telefunken could no longer get Neumanns to fulfill their orders, so they turned to AKG in Austria and developed the new mic around AKG's CK12 capsule.

Tele seemed to always have a hand in designing things, but they mostly relabeled products or occasionally had things built specifically for them...

A lot of the Telefunken mic pres and EQ's were built by companies like Studer and Neumann as well but they all have Telefunken badges.

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: Can someone explain this whole TAD tube thing?

If that is the case who made their tubes for them? How/why would it be that Tesla "bought the Telefunken tube manufcture equipment"? Not saying you're incorrect, just wondering, kinda contradicts what LPB said. I'm not overly familiar with teles or amperex tubes, I've been led to believe they are closely related, but I've never owned/used either, is that the case?

Regardless, I imagine if they were made in another company factory they were still made to a specific design spec, unlike the tube relabels today.

 

[J Moose]

Re: Can someone explain this whole TAD tube thing?

Most of the Telefunken branded tubes were made by either Ei or Phillips. If you look at a late production Ei 12ax7 and an actual, real TeleF they're remarkably similar. Right down to the diamond.

Now the downside, as we all know is that production quality in the final days of Ei was really terrible. You could get new tubes that'd sound great for a few weeks and die or were noisy, microphonic and unusable from day one... or you could get one that'd last forever. Complete luck of the draw.

Bottom line is that even a new $9 Sovtek or GT is/was a much better value then Ei... unless you were willing to buy a dozen tubes to find 4-5 that were usable.

I've heard rumors that the Ei factory is close to starting production again. I'd hope they can pull it together because those were some great tubes... when they worked!

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: Can someone explain this whole TAD tube thing?

Oh wait, so it was Ei that had the telefunken equipment, Tesla just made a copy (ECC803), is that right? Not that it matters, but you have my interest.

Phillips made the Amperex tubes too, correct?

 

[ken361]

Re: Can someone explain this whole TAD tube thing?

http://www.tubemonger.com/Ei_ECC83_12AX7_MINT_NOS_NIB_1970s_Smooth_PL_Edicro_p/1049.htm

 

[J Moose]

Re: Can someone explain this whole TAD tube thing?

Oh wait, so it was Ei that had the telefunken equipment, Tesla just made a copy (ECC803), is that right? Not that it matters, but you have my interest.

Phillips made the Amperex tubes too, correct?

This is starting to go a bit outside the little knowledge I've absorbed over the years... but yeah, Ei was making the TeleF tubes in Yugoslavia for a long long time. A lot of the Ei tubes were I believe copies, as in licensed copies of Phillips glass since the plant originally bought all the tooling from Phillips.

Even in the old glass, there's a LOT of rebranded stuff out there... always has been. Phillips made zillions of tubes up until they folded in the '80s and converted to making lightbulbs. Some under their own label, some other under labels, like the Baldwin organ tubes and even Radio Shack!

While we're on the subject its probably worth noting that Phillips also setup the old Matsu****a factory too...

If you really want to know about the history of this stuff, its probably best to hit a trade show and track down Aspen Pitmann or EveAnna Manley and get 'em to the nearest bar... hehehe

They've forgotten way more about tubes then I've ever learned.

 

[ken361]

Re: Can someone explain this whole TAD tube thing?

they were made on tele equipment, good for the v1

 

[PVFan]

Re: Can someone explain this whole TAD tube thing?

Then don't.

oh snap I changed my mind

Ruby: http://www.magicparts.com/new/default.htm

Mesa: http://www.watfordvalves.com/products.asp?id=27

TAD: http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_60_61&products_id=1101

LPB, thanks for that info, I'm gonna go update my charts.

come on man, if anything it was a compliment that you have any kind of handle on something so complex it is insanifying to me.

I looked at those charts in those links. I won't do that again. It hurt my eyes, heart, head. And they are pretty clear charts!

But, I dropped a new EHx tube in my amp and now it's so much more scintillating sounding that I just can't believe it.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: Can someone explain this whole TAD tube thing?

There are listings of several unique military grade tubes designed and built exclusively by Telefunken. An example would the LS180 tube. GEMA ironically also is on record for using unique Telefunken transmitting tubes for some early experiements. I don't think firms like GEMA and Telefunken built common tubes in large quanities like a tube manafacture like Philips or Mullard would. Telefunken was more like GEC. They built tubes or special versions of particular tubes developed in house by their cadre of research scientists and engineers for their own unique applications. They may well of found it more cost effective and easier to rebrand more common tubes.

Rebranding was pretty common in any case. Mullard and Philips always had a close association, at least after WWII. Of course Holland was occupied by Nazi Germany during the war. There was also a close association before WWII between certain German firms such as Lorenz and American firms like Western Electric, which was a division of AT&T.

At any rate a Tele ECC83 seems to have a unique voice and sound (very clear is a common description) compared to say a Mullard or an American 12AX7.

 

[PVFan]

Re: Can someone explain this whole TAD tube thing?

there's a guitar rag in my john with Edward Van Halen saying Telefunkens are the best tubes he ever used but that he could no longer acquire them (