Can't hear drummers double bass drum during rehearsal?
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Randydrummer
New member
Re: Can't hear drummers double bass drum during rehearsal?
As a drummer I may be able to help. Question- are the bass drums mic'ed and running through monitors, side fills? What is the tempos of the song(s) in question? Do you use in ear monitors? Are you on a crowded stage(close to your amps) or a poor acoustic stage?
All of these instances will effect how you hear drums.
It could be technique, maybe his slave foot is not as strong as his dominant foot. Also, heel down technique generally yields a quieter note, as you get more power transfer and more shell vibration playing heel up.
As a drummer I may be able to help. Question- are the bass drums mic'ed and running through monitors, side fills? What is the tempos of the song(s) in question? Do you use in ear monitors? Are you on a crowded stage(close to your amps) or a poor acoustic stage?
All of these instances will effect how you hear drums.
It could be technique, maybe his slave foot is not as strong as his dominant foot. Also, heel down technique generally yields a quieter note, as you get more power transfer and more shell vibration playing heel up.
Snake Aces
Singlecut Slut
Re: Can't hear drummers double bass drum during rehearsal?
Mics and a PA with a good subwoofer help, but what really helps is a sound engineer who really knows what he is doing. I have played many shows where the bass drum sounded dull and quiet with the drummers I have played with over the years. However, I never forget the shows I've played where the soundmen really knew their boards and frequencies. During soundcheck a great engineer will get it dialed in perfectly and it really kicks ass when they do.
Mics and a PA with a good subwoofer help, but what really helps is a sound engineer who really knows what he is doing. I have played many shows where the bass drum sounded dull and quiet with the drummers I have played with over the years. However, I never forget the shows I've played where the soundmen really knew their boards and frequencies. During soundcheck a great engineer will get it dialed in perfectly and it really kicks ass when they do.
Kamanda~SD
New member
Re: Can't hear drummers double bass drum during rehearsal?
Yeah, definitely need more info on your rehearsal setup as well. My drummer is pretty heavy footed and even we stick a mic on there to help it cut.
Yeah, definitely need more info on your rehearsal setup as well. My drummer is pretty heavy footed and even we stick a mic on there to help it cut.
Lazarus1140
New member
Re: Can't hear drummers double bass drum during rehearsal?
LOL.
Tell the bass player to turn down.
LOL.
Tell the bass player to turn down.
Re: Can't hear drummers double bass drum during rehearsal?
Um it was micd but only for the audience, when we practice we cant hear crap... there is no micing and i am running a 412... i can hear the snare and hats fine... just bass, and sometimes fast sometimes slow, but i never can hear it at all...
Um it was micd but only for the audience, when we practice we cant hear crap... there is no micing and i am running a 412... i can hear the snare and hats fine... just bass, and sometimes fast sometimes slow, but i never can hear it at all...
Kamanda~SD
New member
Re: Can't hear drummers double bass drum during rehearsal?
You didn't have monitors at the show?
Sounds to me like:
a) you guys could benefit from a PA (are you just instrumental or what?)
b) your drummer needs to work on his feet
You didn't have monitors at the show?
Sounds to me like:
a) you guys could benefit from a PA (are you just instrumental or what?)
b) your drummer needs to work on his feet
F
Funkfingers
Guest
Re: Can't hear drummers double bass drum during rehearsal?
Obvious questions, not yet asked. Shell sizes, single or double heads, tuning(s)?
Obvious questions, not yet asked. Shell sizes, single or double heads, tuning(s)?
Re: Can't hear drummers double bass drum during rehearsal?
If your drummer is mic'd it should be coming through the monitors. Bottom line: If you are playing a 412, the other guy has a 412, the bass player has a big rig as well, then your drummer is getting lost in stage volume. This is why monitors where invented. 2: find a sound man that not only knows frequencies but how to place your instruments in the spectrum of the stereo spread. If everything's panned dead center then there will be too many instruments fighting for the same space. Think of it like this:When your drummer rolls through the kit it should sound out front through the system like you are standing in front of kit. volume, placement in the mix, as well as eq are ALL equally important live as well as in the studio.
That's all for now, grasshopper. Now snatch the pebble from my hand (sorry, couldn't resist the Kung Fu TV series quotes).
have a great day,
Al
If your drummer is mic'd it should be coming through the monitors. Bottom line: If you are playing a 412, the other guy has a 412, the bass player has a big rig as well, then your drummer is getting lost in stage volume. This is why monitors where invented. 2: find a sound man that not only knows frequencies but how to place your instruments in the spectrum of the stereo spread. If everything's panned dead center then there will be too many instruments fighting for the same space. Think of it like this:When your drummer rolls through the kit it should sound out front through the system like you are standing in front of kit. volume, placement in the mix, as well as eq are ALL equally important live as well as in the studio.
That's all for now, grasshopper. Now snatch the pebble from my hand (sorry, couldn't resist the Kung Fu TV series quotes).
have a great day,
Al
Last edited:
Chickenwings
Alnico 6/8
Re: Can't hear drummers double bass drum during rehearsal?
my first guess is that you are playing too loud.
However....some drummers have a weak as piss kick sound maybe its the kit, maybe its the way it is tuned but i suspect it is the drummer. I've worked with one recently who has a 24 inch custom DW. It should sound like a cannon, but its just weak and watery - and we don't even play loud. I usually use a 25 watt amp with a single 12 inch speaker running at bout 3. I know other drummers with cheapo kits who sound fat as hell.
Micing things up is really for sound reinforcement at the front of house. You should be able to hear the kick with no mics on it. If you cant then you have to consider that you are either too loud, or the drummer just has a weak sounding kick. Could be a combination of both.
my first guess is that you are playing too loud.
However....some drummers have a weak as piss kick sound maybe its the kit, maybe its the way it is tuned but i suspect it is the drummer. I've worked with one recently who has a 24 inch custom DW. It should sound like a cannon, but its just weak and watery - and we don't even play loud. I usually use a 25 watt amp with a single 12 inch speaker running at bout 3. I know other drummers with cheapo kits who sound fat as hell.
Micing things up is really for sound reinforcement at the front of house. You should be able to hear the kick with no mics on it. If you cant then you have to consider that you are either too loud, or the drummer just has a weak sounding kick. Could be a combination of both.
Snake Aces
Singlecut Slut
Re: Can't hear drummers double bass drum during rehearsal?
I agree with this. 2 guitarists with 4x12" cabs and a bass rig that is probably at least 200 watts can drown out a drummer in practice space a bit, but there is a chance the drummer is not playing hard enough as well.
In a band I was in back in 2007 we had a guitarist with a 4x12" cab with a 100w Marshall, another guitarist with a 1x12" 50 watt Traynor and me with my Gallien-Krueger 1001RB stacked on top of a 2x12" and a 1x15". The 1x12" guitarist and I had been playing music together for about 4 years at that point so we knew each others levels pretty good and also understood how volume levels can work after playing many shows together. Here comes the new guy with his 4x12" who would blast us all out of there, he would crank his volume so loud we couldn't hear anything but him and we played with a drummer who pounded nails into his kit. Save your hearing, you will need it later. No need to play at excessive volumes like that for practice. It needs to be loud enough to hear it and you should need a PA system for the vocals if you are playing at a reasonable practice volume but you do not need to crank it to stadium show levels. So, check your volume on the 4x12" rigs.
I agree with this. 2 guitarists with 4x12" cabs and a bass rig that is probably at least 200 watts can drown out a drummer in practice space a bit, but there is a chance the drummer is not playing hard enough as well.
In a band I was in back in 2007 we had a guitarist with a 4x12" cab with a 100w Marshall, another guitarist with a 1x12" 50 watt Traynor and me with my Gallien-Krueger 1001RB stacked on top of a 2x12" and a 1x15". The 1x12" guitarist and I had been playing music together for about 4 years at that point so we knew each others levels pretty good and also understood how volume levels can work after playing many shows together. Here comes the new guy with his 4x12" who would blast us all out of there, he would crank his volume so loud we couldn't hear anything but him and we played with a drummer who pounded nails into his kit. Save your hearing, you will need it later. No need to play at excessive volumes like that for practice. It needs to be loud enough to hear it and you should need a PA system for the vocals if you are playing at a reasonable practice volume but you do not need to crank it to stadium show levels. So, check your volume on the 4x12" rigs.
Maggot
New member
Re: Can't hear drummers double bass drum during rehearsal?
Either you're playing too loud or your drummer has a weak foot. Either way, start from scratch, mixing everyone's sounds so the drums sound good. After all he's the only acoustic instrument. Literally, start with the bass, make it fit in, then add one guitar, then another.
You'll probably have to turn down a tad and re-eq the low end.
He can also try to tune for a livelier, less muffled sound. It'll sound less like a record, but be more audible live.
Either you're playing too loud or your drummer has a weak foot. Either way, start from scratch, mixing everyone's sounds so the drums sound good. After all he's the only acoustic instrument. Literally, start with the bass, make it fit in, then add one guitar, then another.
You'll probably have to turn down a tad and re-eq the low end.
He can also try to tune for a livelier, less muffled sound. It'll sound less like a record, but be more audible live.
King IzzO)))
Ultimate Kitten Puncher
Re: Can't hear drummers double bass drum during rehearsal?
Hey, I'm a drummer!
Most likely he has the drum muffled too much. Yank the pillow for a smaller piece of foam. Two ply heads are too much on bass drums too, unless you're always mic'd. Pinstripes, hydraulics, Super Kick II's and the like... too much muffling. Switch to a single ply Evans or Powerstroke III. Missing front heads or giant holes also dissipate any resonance so all you will hear is attack. This can be good or bad, depending on what you're going for, but if you do it using the wrong beaters it can be a problem as well. I like wood beaters. I play loud as ****. Any combination of the above is a recipe for a dead ass bass drum and you might as well be playing a cardboard box.
Tuning is crucial, all drums have a pitch where they resonate most, sometimes it takes a bit of fiddling to find it. He needs to find it. Usually with bass drums I run the screws till they're finger tight, seat the head, and 1/2-3/4 turn beyond that on each lug. Then I start looking for the pitch it likes. It's usually not much higher than that.
Deeper drums project better, but too deep does the opposite. 16-18" depth is best in my experience. 24" or bigger diameter drums project great, but the head just can't reset quickly enough and they tend to flub out on really fast double bass patterns. I know a lot of metal drummers go for 24's, but you're probably better off with a 22 in most cases.
After all that, heel down technique is bull****. If you're always mic'd you can get away with it, but you simply cannot put any power into the drum that way. You may sacrifice some speed heel up and using your calves, but I've never had a problem. I can pretty easily handle War Ensemble, as an example. If you learn one way though, good luck changing how you play.
My most recent band I played drums in practiced with both guitarists using OG Peavey Butchers at least 3/4 up into 4x12's and the bass player using a M/B 400+ into a 4x10 and 1x18 Ampeg cabs in a 12x12 room. I realize that sounds ridiculous to most people, but I'm putting that out there as an example that it can be done with proper setup and technique.
Hey, I'm a drummer!
Most likely he has the drum muffled too much. Yank the pillow for a smaller piece of foam. Two ply heads are too much on bass drums too, unless you're always mic'd. Pinstripes, hydraulics, Super Kick II's and the like... too much muffling. Switch to a single ply Evans or Powerstroke III. Missing front heads or giant holes also dissipate any resonance so all you will hear is attack. This can be good or bad, depending on what you're going for, but if you do it using the wrong beaters it can be a problem as well. I like wood beaters. I play loud as ****. Any combination of the above is a recipe for a dead ass bass drum and you might as well be playing a cardboard box.
Tuning is crucial, all drums have a pitch where they resonate most, sometimes it takes a bit of fiddling to find it. He needs to find it. Usually with bass drums I run the screws till they're finger tight, seat the head, and 1/2-3/4 turn beyond that on each lug. Then I start looking for the pitch it likes. It's usually not much higher than that.
Deeper drums project better, but too deep does the opposite. 16-18" depth is best in my experience. 24" or bigger diameter drums project great, but the head just can't reset quickly enough and they tend to flub out on really fast double bass patterns. I know a lot of metal drummers go for 24's, but you're probably better off with a 22 in most cases.
After all that, heel down technique is bull****. If you're always mic'd you can get away with it, but you simply cannot put any power into the drum that way. You may sacrifice some speed heel up and using your calves, but I've never had a problem. I can pretty easily handle War Ensemble, as an example. If you learn one way though, good luck changing how you play.
My most recent band I played drums in practiced with both guitarists using OG Peavey Butchers at least 3/4 up into 4x12's and the bass player using a M/B 400+ into a 4x10 and 1x18 Ampeg cabs in a 12x12 room. I realize that sounds ridiculous to most people, but I'm putting that out there as an example that it can be done with proper setup and technique.
jake_xms3_punk
New member
Re: Can't hear drummers double bass drum during rehearsal?
The bass drum is the first thing to get lost in the mix if you play loud! Also his technique isn't helping, imagine laying Your palm flat on a bass pedal and pushing it with your fingers without your palm leaving the pedal, do you think you would get the same power and impact as if you punched it? same thing for feet!
The bass drum is the first thing to get lost in the mix if you play loud! Also his technique isn't helping, imagine laying Your palm flat on a bass pedal and pushing it with your fingers without your palm leaving the pedal, do you think you would get the same power and impact as if you punched it? same thing for feet!
El Dunco
Sock Supplier to RHCP
Re: Can't hear drummers double bass drum during rehearsal?
Does his technique sound alright when it's only him playing? It may just be the kick drum itself. I find smaller diameter kick drums are actually a bit tighter and punchier. If you have a PA in your rehearsal space and you suspension mount a D112 inside the kick drum a couple of inches away from the inside of the batter and run that through the PA with a bit of EQ, then you will know for sure.
Does his technique sound alright when it's only him playing? It may just be the kick drum itself. I find smaller diameter kick drums are actually a bit tighter and punchier. If you have a PA in your rehearsal space and you suspension mount a D112 inside the kick drum a couple of inches away from the inside of the batter and run that through the PA with a bit of EQ, then you will know for sure.
Randydrummer
New member
Can't hear drummers double bass drum during rehearsal?
The reality is that all the answers are valid. With that being said, it could be the drummer cannot mix himself at the kit.
I suggest process of elimination. Have drummer play all out, acoustically, no other sound. What is the relation of bass drum to say snare cymbals? If the bass drum is the least heard instrument, your drummer cant mix himself and will need sound reinforcement.
If drummer sounds fine, start blending in other instruments. Vocals, guitars, then bass. Use your master volume on the amps and PA.
Find the sweet spot where everything is audible.
The reality is that all the answers are valid. With that being said, it could be the drummer cannot mix himself at the kit.
I suggest process of elimination. Have drummer play all out, acoustically, no other sound. What is the relation of bass drum to say snare cymbals? If the bass drum is the least heard instrument, your drummer cant mix himself and will need sound reinforcement.
If drummer sounds fine, start blending in other instruments. Vocals, guitars, then bass. Use your master volume on the amps and PA.
Find the sweet spot where everything is audible.
Re: Can't hear drummers double bass drum during rehearsal?
Just so you guys know ive solved the problem, We adjusted drummers kit, everything, and put his throne WAY higher, he learned heel up pretty quickly, he doesnt have the speed but man does the each beat have more attack and power.... everything is more pronounced and basically sounds as loud as his snare now... cant wait to have a full rehearsal now!
Just so you guys know ive solved the problem, We adjusted drummers kit, everything, and put his throne WAY higher, he learned heel up pretty quickly, he doesnt have the speed but man does the each beat have more attack and power.... everything is more pronounced and basically sounds as loud as his snare now... cant wait to have a full rehearsal now!
