Cap Recommendations for (Mild) Tone Control On An On-Off Switch

[Drak]

Hi Guys.
Say I wanted to wire a tone cap to a switch so it was either out of the circuit altogether or fully engaged.
Like you just rolled your tone pot all the way down to zero.
And I'm using a combo PP volume pot to engage the tone cap.

And...I wanted to just 'round off' the treble, as if the average tone pot was on 7-ish, ...maybe 8-ish.
You get the idea, just knocking the very top end off, nothing severe.
I know it's an inexact science, just get me started in the right direction and recommend 3-4 caps to try that should hit it.
.001?
.0033?
Help and thanks!

 

[Dave Locher]

Re: Cap Recommendations for (Mild) Tone Control On An On-Off Switch

A few months ago I built a box with a rotary switch and 5 different caps, each wired to ground like you describe. .001 you barely hear at all. .003 is a bit darker than you seem to want. Somewhere in between is a fair bet. But of course it depends on you guitar, amp, and ears.

 

[freefrog]

Re: Cap Recommendations for (Mild) Tone Control On An On-Off Switch

Until a typical tone pot is set at less than 3/10 , the cap connected to it has a minor influence: it's mostly the resistance of the pot which is softening the tone when your control is @ 7/10 or 8/10.

So, if you want to mimic that, what you need is a resistor in series with a regular cap, the whole going to ground. 120k or 220k would roughly imitate a 250k or a 500k pot rolled back of a few steps.


FOOTNOTES to read or not...

If you hardwire a cap directly to ground, it will work but won't sound like a tone control slightly rolled off: it will "dictate" a new "resonant peak" to your pickup(s), making it more and more nasal then progressively darker (action heavily depending on the cable and wiring used + the specs of the pickups: a 0.0033 with single coils is not the same than with Filter'Tron's or 'buckers).

About the values that you mention: 0.001µF would/will have the same effect that an added cable of +/- 6m: slightly less higrange, without too much influence on the mids. 0.0033µF, conversely, would/will already enhance the high mids in a noticeable way with many rigs (unless you use low capacitance wires and/or low inductance piclups). Even a 0.0022µF would do that. Maybe a 0.0015µF would be interesting for you.

ANYWAY, watch this vid & keep in mind that with passive PU's, an added lenght of cable is the same thing that a low value cap: each time you add 1fT, it's as if you added a 45pF cap to ground... (45pF = 0,000045µF):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2sjeVQpS94&start_radio=1&list=RDu2sjeVQpS94&t=94

So, when the dude uses a 15' cable it's like an added 675pF cap (0,000675µF).
The maximum value that he uses is 75' of cable: it's potentially the same than a 3375pF cap (= practically the 0.0033 that you evoked). You can hear it @6:42 and 8:42, with a Strat then with humbuckers.

FWIW.

 

[jtougas]

Re: Cap Recommendations for (Mild) Tone Control On An On-Off Switch

What freefrog said. You need the cap to determine the frequency, and the resistor to determine the amount of cut.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Cap Recommendations for (Mild) Tone Control On An On-Off Switch

i use a .0015 cap on the dark setting on my esquire and i like it a lot. gives almost a cocked wah pseudo neck pup tone

 

[hamerfan]

Re: Cap Recommendations for (Mild) Tone Control On An On-Off Switch

i use a .0015 cap on the dark setting on my esquire and i like it a lot. gives almost a cocked wah pseudo neck pup tone

I made a tone pot 500k with a switch (push/pull) with two caps .010 and .0033 at the outer lugs to ground. The middle position is nearly off, but the switch takes it completely out.

 

[Drak]

Re: Cap Recommendations for (Mild) Tone Control On An On-Off Switch

I get it, what freefrog said, it makes perfect sense and that's probably the way to proceed.
So...I'll spill ALL the beans here for open discussion and all comments.

PS, I've built about 10 fully active guitars with EMG tone controls over the years using standard pickups.
And I have 2 pretty large boards.
So instead of compensating for large board/signal loss due to cabling with a buffer pedal, I use one of my active guitars when running one of the big boards.
So all that loading and signal loss, I get all that, I understand all that and have compensated in my own way, and it works great.
...With no fuzz anyway...

OK, back on topic...so what I have is a H/S/S Strat pickguard on a Floyded rig.
This is a new build that's coming close to completion now.

DiMarzio AT-1 in the bridge, a Lawrence L-290 middle position in the neck. It's warm.
This...more or less, is 'copping' an Ibanez Satriani setup...more or less.
Those two pickups are connected to a three-way switch and a tone pot, just like a Tele.
Think of that part of it like a Tele and you've got it.

In the middle position, currently I have a Barden Strat.
That is wired directly to a 250K PP volume pot then right to the output jack and wired J Bass style.
Think of it like a sleeper cell pickup or a stealth pickup.
So it's normal position is off and rolled in only when I want to use it via it's own volume pot.
So the Barden is running 'separate from' but 'parallel with' the 'Tele' setup of AT-1/L-290.
That can be rolled 'into the game' at any time via it's own volume pot.

So, I only have room to adjust the Barden with the PP on/off switch to alter it's tone.
I'd like to keep the characteristics of the Barden intact for when I want it's loud, powerful, clean tone.
But also be able to 'kill' it's highs down to where it will interact more 'in character' with the warm tone of the other two.
Just want to be able to 'clip' that Barden high end and bring more warm juice with the PP when I want.

That's the full game plan.

 

[jtougas]

Re: Cap Recommendations for (Mild) Tone Control On An On-Off Switch

'kay. You're gonna have to experiment to find out what it takes to get the Barden to jive with the other two.